Trail Set Example

[Deleted]

I absolutely agree with BK in the "same mink" theory and I certainly believe it also pertains to coyotes as well.  It only depends on how you want to catch them, the best way(set) to catch them, or what is the only way to catch them and "them" being the same animals.

Farm ground such as you're trapping in my opinion isn't really conducive to the heavy use of trail sets except there can be opportunities in dead furrows or tire tracks.  I never used a trail set on the diary farm.  Speaking of the diary farm, I caught 6 coyotes and 6 reds there all in lured sets.(3 traps=2 coyotes + 1 red video).  What would you do though if you had coyotes on that farm ground and they ignored your lured sets?  Conducive to trail sets or not, you'd be thinking about what needed to be done in order to catch coyote on that farm OR you'd leave.   

Now lets move a 1.5 miles west to the "big excavation pit" where I caught 10 coyote, 6 by trail.  Of the 6 coyote caught on the south side of the pit, only 1 was caught in a lured set but the family of of which I caught 5 in trail sets, ignored the 2 lured sets amongst the trail sets.  Now jump across the pit where there was no cohesive family group that I could decipher and I caught 4 coyote, 3 in lured(mange video) sets and 1 in a trail(cockleburs vid).

I have no answer, just suspicions as to why many properties with coyote traveling on them ignored my lured sets even at historically proven set locations and at others, have them jumping into them!  

I do have a question for this board.  Lets say I setup a line and start setting the properties 11/1 and discover 3-5 other trappers also are trapping adjacent and/or nearby(within section) properties BUT they started 10/15.  There are still coyotes on my properties BUT are ignoring all lured sets.  I catch 1 here and 1 there for 2 weeks and I leave.  Each year property owners ask me back so I do but the scenario is repeated in all aspects for 3 years thinking I can overcome whatever is the cause of lack of production but never do.  WHY are the lured sets being ignored on that line?  

This year I didn't trap that line but I scouted it on 10/16 and ran into a coyote trapper checking traps on an adjacent property.  As it turned out he was trapping properties on 3 sides of the property I was going to set 11/1.  He said he had to start early because he knew I was going to be there on 11/1.  How many of you that are reading this post have someone trapping on 3 sides of you and they have been trapping those properties for 2 weeks?  Now I'm no rocket scientist but it's pretty tough for someone to convince me that there is no negative effect on my ability to catch whatever coyote are left!

[trappnman]

I hate trying to make myself clear by typing!

so- never, I am in no way demeaning your experience or your skill in finding just the right trail set.

so any discourse I might have presented, is more to the question of coyotes showing no interest in lures, which would be tantamount ot saying they have no intresti nscent, for a period of time.

I do think that females, when coming in season, DO have less nose ability- I've seen in countless times in fd trial beagles when they come in season (not all, but some) and its like their nose just quits working.

but beyond that- why would coyotes not be interested in scents, and if they are then lures are just scents

could the why be location?

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 9:47:04 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I hate trying to make myself clear by typing!

so- never, I am in no way demeaning your experience or your skill in finding just the right trail set.

so any discourse I might have presented, is more to the question of coyotes showing no interest in lures, which would be tantamount ot saying they have no intresti nscent, for a period of time.

I do think that females, when coming in season, DO have less nose ability- I've seen in countless times in fd trial beagles when they come in season (not all, but some) and its like their nose just quits working.

but beyond that- why would coyotes not be interested in scents, and if they are then lures are just scents

could the why be location?

No, no, absolutely never had that thought of demeaning.

Location has always been and still is my 1st thought especially on new properties.  Why would I want to put a set THERE is always the question.  So certainly, always a possibility even on properties I've trapped for years features can change enough to alter the reason why the coyotes use it or use a historically proven location.  Setting on sign never changes so I'm always where the coyotes are within a couple feet anyway.  If location were the heart of the issue, i don't think it's be so property specific, I'd think I'd find this happening regardless of the property because the reason and criteria a person uses to chooses a set location doesn't change.

[trappnman]

If location were the heart of the issue, i don't think it's be so property specific, I'd think I'd find this happening regardless of the property because the reason and criteria a person uses to chooses a set location doesn't change.

so if I'm getting this right- you see lack of interest in lured sets, only on singular properties, and not systemic?

[Deleted]

Back to the "location" thought.  I normally stay 10-12 nights on a property but this year on several of these "ignored" response properties I stayed longer.  I stayed longer just because of the thought I was off location and doubted my ability to pick the right set locations on that particular property so I used the extra time to add sets.  I only added sets IF I had what I figured were secondary set(s) locations.  The only thing the extra time did that was a positive was add to my belief that it wasn't me or my inability to choose the right set location.  I do have a basic belief that if coyote are using a property there has to be set locations where I can catch them.  During the last 3 years of dealing with this problem on some properties and catching the hell out of them on others, I've discounted that the locations choices I make are the problem.

So, I have really fortified my belief that the cause of the "ignore" reaction is caused by something beyond my control or at least not being caused by me.

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 10:24:30 GMT -6 trappnman said:

If location were the heart of the issue, i don't think it's be so property specific, I'd think I'd find this happening regardless of the property because the reason and criteria a person uses to chooses a set location doesn't change.

so if I'm getting this right- you see lack of interest in lured sets, only on singular properties, and not systemic?

Correct.

[RdFx]

The bottom edge set vs blind set is same just differant places and same mink, just where does he come across your trap in his travels.
Location in deciding where you set plus sign are two criteria i consider. When a farmer or rancher says i always see yotes in a certain place, im going to go there and set cables or footholds depending on the area as my location and sign have been given to me . The situation where another trapper has been setting all around or even in specific area im going to trap does make a differance in how i set. If i can discern what methods the trapper has or is using i do something differant in type of set and at times no bait or scent in a set that isnt a trail set BUT i put in trail sets also. It can be a waiting game if i have the time just like waiting for that ol buck mink in making his rounds. When the mating season is upon the furbearer you are after things change and you adapt..... putting in sets you know work or a change up depending on the situation.

[trappnman]

ok, got it. I was under the impression that you were talking a widespread happening.

when you see this- have you tried making lured sets nearby- so same coyotes, just offerings at another point in their range?

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 10:33:43 GMT -6 trappnman said:

ok, got it. I was under the impression that you were talking a widespread happening.

when you see this- have you tried making lured sets nearby- so same coyotes, just offerings at another point in their range?

 I normally stay 10-12 nights on a property but this year on several of these "ignored" response properties I stayed longer. I stayed longer just because of the thought I was off location and doubted my ability to pick the right set locations on that particular property at the initial setting so I used the extra time to add additional sets. I only added sets IF I had what I figured were secondary set(s) locations.  It turned into kind of a reverse thought process.-- "OK, the coyotes are just tripping on by feet away and downwind so it's obvious they know the set(s) (usually 2 different) are here so where can I make a set along the coyote's line of travel either before he's getting to these sets or is there a set location beyond these sets that might interest him?"  That's pretty much what goes through my head when I see this "ignoring" reaction.

Back to the wrong location thought.  Remember my lure and bait testing videos?  Well I use the identical thought process for determining test plot locations as my actual set making locations and is another reason why my tests are just a very simple, small hole.  If the scent is a good one it'll be far from ignored as seen in the videos afew monthsprior to trapping season.  I also stated that several of my testing locations I also trap and have usually done well(2-4, up to 9) coyote with walk-thrus and stepdowns.  I had 2 of these "testing properties" change to "ignored" properties this year which was really crazy after trapping them for the past 9 years!

[RdFx]

Never this completely ignoring yotes could be yotes with a completely different mind set. Example: Though with wolves, we have some packs that kill hounds all the time until the alpha wolves or offspring that learned fm alphas are taken. Some of these packs dont do any preditation while others do.... im thinking on this ignoring situation, you have some yotes with a completely different mindset..... next yr things might go back to what you might consider normal reaction.

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 10:31:49 GMT -6 RdFx said:

. The situation where another trapper has been setting all around or even in specific area im going to trap does make a differance in how i set. If i can discern what methods the trapper has or is using i do something differant in type of set and at times no bait or scent in a set that isnt a trail set BUT i put in trail sets also. 

Yes, I agree.  That's probably why I have so much success with the walk-thru.  I've had a chance to observe two trappers's dirt hole sets, including the guy I previously mentioned.  They were both just simple dirt hole sets with a 2" hole.  One had ridges in a "V" and the other was just flat.  The guy with the flat one told me he was having trouble with his #3 Dukes because they wouldn't fire and the coyotes where stomping all over them and digging them out.  I had previously spoken with a nearby property owner who had this trapper try and trap coyotes on his property which was adjacent to mine.  The owner told me the trapper tried for 2 weeks but couldn't catch a coyote because the trapper told him "the coyote keep springing my traps and getting away".

Yes, yes, I know I'm leaning strongly to "other trappers" BECAUSE the problem is specific to properties and I know there are other people trying to trap coyotes in the near vicinity including property owners. buying traps at the Tractor Supply and trying their hand.

Had a guy approach me at the NAFA pick-up location, he'd recognized my truck and rig.  He had heard about my coyote trapping and had gained permission to trap the "big Pit" property that I was on but the owner required him to ask me if he could trap coyote or just coon.  He told me he'd tried for 4 years to trap coyote and had caught 1 and 2 reds and they were causing him all kinds of trouble snapped traps, digging traps out, digging out his dirt holes from every direction except where his trap was, etc. typical beginner problems.  He'd been trying to trap the past 4 years within 3 miles of several of my properties.

I was able to do some back-checking of a new "ignore" property and found a property owner 1/4 to the north had been trying to trap coyote on the adjacent property to me or 3 years and had caught 1 coyote.  A 1/2 to the east I learned that property owner has coyote traps out year-round.

I know I must sound like a broken record but it is what it is!

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 12:07:00 GMT -6 RdFx said:

Never this completely ignoring yotes could be yotes with a completely different mind set. Example: Though with wolves, we have some packs that kill hounds all the time until the alpha wolves or offspring that learned fm alphas are taken. Some of these packs dont do any preditation while others do.... im thinking on this ignoring situation, you have some yotes with a completely different mindset..... next yr things might go back to what you might consider normal reaction.

Yes it coud be RdFx.  As a matter of fact, I've never forgotten 1080's thoughts on this subject of mindset which relates to the "spot".  The problem lies with small parcels of properties is that I may only have a few hundred yds of mindset and no "spot"!  If this is in fact the case, there 's only one recourse and that would be not trap that particular property regardless of the fact there are coyotes crossing it.  It's pretty darn hard for me to walk away from properties I know coyote are traveling.

[RdFx]

Never thats where your trail sets reign supreme on those traveling yotes and when those differant mind set yotes are taken out, things MIGHT change and maybe not.... i believe this is why we are trappers and keep pursuing the yotes. I got to give the buggers some credit is spoofing us at times...LOL

[trappnman]

While i'll not say individual coyotes can't become lure/set shy, the number of collared coyotes recaught makes me question it happening to any large degree. And I know, I've had a coyote traps snapped with a tad of fur in it, and the coyote sitting in a trap feet away (tracks in snow)

I'm convinced that the actions (or non actions) you are seeing are mindset problems- and you have found the solution for that in your method of trail sets.

you mentioned the coyotes not breaking stride, passing right by-

and that makes me think what if you gave them a reason? I know I get boo-hooed for doing this, but more and more I like using bone visuals- if I can, a skull works great to get coyotes into the area. on many occasions, I find the skulls moved and rolled at the sets-and usually with a coyote. or perhaps a carcasse or two up in the weeds.

I'm not saying that the above is better (your trail sets are doing the job) just thinking of what would get them into the mind set.

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 16:50:52 GMT -6 trappnman said:

While i'll not say individual coyotes can't become lure/set shy, the number of collared coyotes recaught makes me question it happening to any large degree. And I know, I've had a coyote traps snapped with a tad of fur in it, and the coyote sitting in a trap feet away (tracks in snow)

I'm convinced that the actions (or non actions) you are seeing are mindset problems- and you have found the solution for that in your method of trail sets.

you mentioned the coyotes not breaking stride, passing right by-

and that makes me think what if you gave them a reason? I know I get boo-hooed for doing this, but more and more I like using bone visuals- if I can, a skull works great to get coyotes into the area. on many occasions, I find the skulls moved and rolled at the sets-and usually with a coyote. or perhaps a carcasse or two up in the weeds.

I'm not saying that the above is better (your trail sets are doing the job) just thinking of what would get them into the mind set.

And I agree with everything you've said.  The frustration part rears it's ugly head when my mind tells me that I should catch coyote here because THEY are HERE!

About the bones.  In one of my videos I mentioned the dairy farmer spreading his compost on top of the pit fill(1.5 mile away from diary farm).  Well there were bones scattered every where across about 5-6 acres.  The truck drivers must have thought I was nuts picking up bones and loading up my quad.  I only tried two very short settings on another property from where I picked them up before pulling so I certainly didn't give them a chance at all but I'm willing to to move forward next year with them.  

[garbage collector]

Never, that go pro is a great gadget,like others enjoy your videos.Alot of good info for beginner snare guys, trail setters, if they listen sure save them time and energy. Remember first year snaring, fresh snow,find tracks put in snares,after a week nothing. Findingthe trails with old and new tracks was the ticket.
Your belief that the yotes have been educated by the other trappers is spot on. See it quite often, a lot of guys run dirt holes here and by the time I start they'll walk right on by. As you ask what's a,guy to do. This is,dairy country so trails are out,to many deer stomping on the trails. I've pretty much went to mafia set on these properties, my downfall is patience, which is what's needed,on these type of coyotes.

[trappnman]

I started using bones at the set ie T bone lured set-

and I found that quite often, the coyote just grabbed the bone.

so I slowly started using more bones, but placing them 10-15 feet away from the set and giving them a good shot of urine- but then I was making a focal point

so I started just placing the bone near the set, but putting nothing on it.

I wish I could say all my locations are prime/spot locations but they are not- and many are "close" to the spot, but not on it.
for example I have a location that is across a gravel road, with a few small pastures inbetween, from a small dairy/beef operation. nowhere to set on that side of the road. on the side I set on, there is a short field road that goes across the field and dead ends in the middle of a field- below this road on a slight slope, is a little marsh with tall grass ,that is loosely connected to weed/waterways on 2 sides, that I haven o access to. This marsh is maybe 200 yards below the field road where it ends.

so pretty much set there at end of road (the road to nowhere) or set nowhere.

before the sue of a skull- exactly 1 coyote a year there- and that went on for years.

with a skull- its been a 3-6 location

before-was being there 2 weeks and more

later-was a week

and I've shown this to be something that has worked more than once, over many years- if I have a good attraction point, but can't set it up- I increase my odds of a coyote coming to my sets, by using a visual that stands out like a sore thumb, and their curiosity takes over. I use either skulls, or ribbons - the ribbons I pound into the ground so they are vertical.

one of those thing laugh at it if you want- proof as always is in the pudding.

[trappnman]

saying a lot of guys run dirtholes, is saying that a lot of guys put dirt over traps-

by no means are dirtholes created equal

On the internet, I often see sets made for coyotes that I cringe when seeing- and the comments are always "great set" "that will take them!" etc..... which leads me to believe more people than not don't have a clue on how to make consistent sets designed for coyotes.

and that's not to negate anyones skills but the point is don't worry about all those other guys running dirtholes, cause chances are they are making sets poorly designed for coyotes. A case in point as well is the advice on lure use- a few drops, because advice is don't overlure, don't use multiple lures, for heavens sakes only use urine on the backing

I firmly believe that, even in an area where dirtholes are overlapping each other, that the RIGHT dirthole ON THE RIGHT LOCATION is going to catch them.

and by no means am I suggesting I'm the guy- but I feel this set shy coyote is vastly overstated and here is why-

#1, and a big #1- during fur season 60% of your potential coyotes to be caught, in a typical population, are YOY.

#2- in collaring, I know almost 1/3 were recaught by me or other trappers within a year- same general locations, same general sets- in my case, the same locations, lures and sets. Now- a coyote caught in a trap, handled by humans every which way, inspected from one end to the other, often for a 20+ minute time frame, a collar attached- then released. If ANY coyote was going to be human, trap and lure shy...to my mind, these would be it. One of the recaught coyotes by me, was a week to the day in the next set.

#3- I've had coyotes trip traps, and within close sight of the next set, be sitting there in the morning. or I've had it happen in snow, where a singular coyote messes around and snaps 2 traps that were stiff or whatever- so he worked a set, had dirt thrown in his face, had loud unexpected noise- and he still worked the next set?

my conclusion is that the "dirthole shy" coyote comes into the same classification as the "human scent shy" coyote -


it happens, but not to the extent one needs to change a line because of it.

[garbage collector]

I wholeheartedly agree, and that's the point Never is bringing out, it seems certain properties.
I've read your #2 statement numerous times and always found it intriguing to say the least. Seen the part where 1set location scratch scratch go down the road there the culprit sits buried full pad,same setup so what gives, then I scratch.
The yoy I still question yearly, talked to to many guys they might see 30%. Last year 2wks start of season 3%, why my guess parvo. Same here this year on reds mostly adults, few yoy ,ones that are caught mostmangey.

[Deleted]

Glad that you liked the videos Garbage Collector and it's great to see you and others joining in on the discussion.  It's THE reason I post the videos, to promote discussion!