Good video. That would be a tough set to blend in. The change in the surface from hard to soft might spook the yote.
I'd snare that place instead! Right in the grass.
Do coyotes sit on top of piles like that similar to what fox do?
That's right, BUT I've done it before is as tough of spots. I pick the set location so that there is only the one step. I don't worry about hard-to-soft, because they don't know it's a soft spot until they've stepped down.. Remeber, the principle of a trail set is using the coyotes natural gait/stride, one natural or at ease step!
I know many folks who would hang cable in that grass and they'd hang cable all over because there is specific or multi-used trail. MI has the worst cable restraint Regs in the entire nation but even when I snared with lethal snares there are far better locations behind me and down on the river flats. The coyotes filter through that grassy area in a very random manner, they pay no attention to the old tire tracks seen in the video. If they traveled through that grassy area using a definate trail with multi-use sign as seen on the dirt piles instead of the randomness observed, heck, I'd be using foorhold trail sets there because I know they'd be traveling with their head's up.
I learned when we had letal snaring(pre-2005) that it was inefficent for me(maybe not for others?) to hang cable here-there-and everywhere just because there was a coyote track or ASSUMED there was a coyote traveling there in hopes the coyote chose that location to pass through. You've possible heard me comment over the years that I use the same principles I learned snaring now with footholds, NEVER set a trap or hang a snare unless there are multiple-age tracks using the location just as I show in the video!
No, only when I've got a coyote caught in a staked set will they sit, such as in one of my previous videos with dirt piles near the big sand pit and caught that double on drags.
Thanks for the discussion Musher!
Last Edit: Jan 10, 2016 18:07:26 GMT -6 by Deleted
Nice video. The part I dislike about trail sets and maybe it would be different is the snapped traps and associated remakes. But looking at the location you showed in the video they seem to be coyote specific. I am needing to set more trail sets because I know I am missing lots of coyotes.
Nice video. The part I dislike about trail sets and maybe it would be different is the snapped traps and associated remakes. But looking at the location you showed in the video they seem to be coyote specific. I am needing to set more trail sets because I know I am missing lots of coyotes.
Aaron, I have far less snapped traps with trail setting then I do with any other type of set! I'm sure it's because I'm pretty picky concerning where I set. A scented set pulls every thing, deer, coon, skunk, and opossum but without scent and some time spent reading sign a person can eliminate almost all trash-sprung traps. It is tougher with deer but ya just don't set on deer runways! This year I had to really get my head into trail setting early because of the lack of interest in my scented sets on some properties. Anymore, I really look forward to a good, early snow cover for my coyote trapping but circumstances may be that you/I have to step out of the box and comfort zone in order to catch coyotes. It wasn't that many years ago when I got mid-calf snow depth I was done for the sesson AND never thought of much trail setting, just pound in the walk-thrus and dirt holes but not anymore!
A few years ago I bought J.C.Conner's video on trail setting. Not so much to be taught HOW to do it but I was looking for assurance I was on the right path. Probably one of the most important videos I've ever purchased because it verified I was dead on with my principles or thought process with the set. Certainly gave me the confidence that I wasn't off on a tangent.
Post by stickbowhntr on Jan 10, 2016 22:06:26 GMT -6
Mike, you a a great thinker and teacher. One who just does not do but see's and observes and makes use of it all.
There is a limit to genius...too bad there is none for stupidity!!!!
A life that riskes nothing is worth nothing!
There is a difference between INTEREST and COMMITMENT. When you are INTERESTED in something you do it only when it is CONVIENIENT. When you are COMMITED to something you ACCEPT NO EXCUSES and PRODUCE ONLY RESULTS.
one thing JC told me- sure you catch incidentals in trail sets- but aren't you doing the same in lured sets?
for discussion- what would you say the average time is for trail sets, vs lured sets?
I catch far, far, fewer incidentals in my trail sets then my lured sets. Maybe I'm picky/choosy when it comes to trail set locations because I'm wholey aware of catching incidentals probably because folks like O"G and others talk about it in their writings. If I find a dead furrow with a couple coyote tracks running it BUT a bunch of coon as well, I don't/won't set it! Here's the deal, those animals running the dead furrow are traveling to somewhere and it's usually NOT the same place so I just look further along it until I find where they split company because they will split. Again as I mentioned in the video, it boils down to TIME SPENT and many folks have different priorities then searching out trail set locations.
I also believe from what folks have told me, that similarly to hanging cable, they look at trails through the grass and other types of cover and immediately figure that's where they should put in a foothold trail set. This thinking or lack-of will get anybody a ton of incidentals! Now maybe I'm all wet when I say this but how many would throw in a dirt hole or other lured set just because there's a trail through the grass? If you wouldn't, why would they set the trail with a blind set???
In the same vain, when I snared, I was pretty darn good at it. If I found where a pair was using a trail, the next time they came through usually I killed both time after time. Every snare I hung was hung at that location or trail because it met my personal and specific criteria. I knew other folks that snared and they hung cable to beat the band. They hung snares where they "thought" a coyote "might" pass through and in doing so, hung 5-7 times the number of snares as I did on a similar acreage. One of the biggest downfalls of this randomness is that we have a 24hr check Reg and in order to check all of those snares, you pressured the coyote off the property!! Son not only didi these people waste time tramping all over hanging snares with extremely low % of success, they pushed the coyote off.
Now for the "time" of making different sets. I've never thought about a speed comparison before but I'm going to say that making a trail set I'm probably twice as fast as making a deep, step-down dirt hole set. I might be 20-30% faster making a trail set over a walk-thru which is similar but different. Remember, with lured sets the coyote's nose AND eyes are inches from the trap and it's feet are quite stationary compared to tripping down a trail, not so with trail sets. Head is up and the coyote is moving forward. Huge difference in my opinion. Now with setting trail sets in deep snow, there's no comparison in setting time because the trail sets are super quick! For a fact, me hanging a snare vs setting a foothold in deep snow is undoubtedly the same and that is as fast as it can get I feel.
A few years ago I bought J.C.Conner's video on trail setting. Not so much to be taught HOW to do it but I was looking for assurance I was on the right path. Probably one of the most important videos I've ever purchased because it verified I was dead on with my principles or thought process with the set. Certainly gave me the confidence that I wasn't off on a tangent.
I agree JC's Blind Set DVD is fantastic. It helped me to look at things differently and also narrowing things down.
Last Edit: Jan 11, 2016 11:11:28 GMT -6 by Aaron.F
I believe trail sets produce quicker in comparison to lured sets as per some of the reasons I gave in my previous reply.
When I say "picky" I say that in-regards to finding and setting locations that I feel are almost an automatic, no-brainer that one or more coyote will use that trail on their next cycle through. That's why I NEVER set a trail unless I see at least two ages of sign as I showed in the video.
I don't feel a blind set such as the trail set I use is a cure for all that ails but I do believe it has it's time and place. This year was a super example where on some properties the coyote came quick to lured sets and a few miles away showed no interest. So what do you do? You use a set that isn't lured if you want to catch coyote OR do you want to sit there and check empty traps for 2-3 weeks OR quit! No brainer!
Once I get more then 4"of snow cover I switch to ALL snow trail sets and have done so the past 3 years, this being the 4th. Though I don't have 4" of snow cover, yesterday I unloaded all of my lured set making equipment so If I reset this week everything will be trail sets because I've got enough snow to use as my trap covering.
Folks are quick to recommend "hang snares", well they can't know MI cable Regs so I understand them saying that BUT what they really don't know is that I use the same principles I used snaring with my footholds. What they also don't understand or maybe not know is that my success rate was high when I used lethal snares and my success rate today with footholds using the same principles with footholds as snares is EQUALLY as high which is extremely obvious trail setting deep snow.
Here's an example that happened 3 years ago when I first used my sled. During the fall I set a field within a large wooded section(have trapped it for about 8-9 years with good success) and immediately had a family of 5 check my lured sets. It was very obvious that at least one of the adults knew the score because it wouldn't allow the other coyotes near my sets. During the next 10 nights(I checked my notes) they came through twice and never even hesitated, just tripped on by the sets. I went in around Christmas or a little later with the sled and searched out the locations/trails (3 different trails) they had made on their route through. What I found interesting was they would travel together across the corn stubble and a distance into the brush but then they seemed to want to split-up and use trails of their own. In other words, they didn't run one behind the other on the trails as in the field. I killed all 5 in 8 nights. Again, it took TIME and THOUGHT but once I sorted things out, the catching was easy! Don't folks take time and thought when using lured sets anyway? I do.
Last Edit: Jan 11, 2016 11:58:57 GMT -6 by Deleted
Never, ive had similar experiences and the refusal of regular sets got me thinking of Charlie Dobbins story of a yote out West and he went to trail sets.....tried trail sets... BINGO... some unwanted catches but ALOT less and the yotes started to arrive in my fur shed. Your posts will help alot of trappers if they ONLY listen....
Thanks a lot Rdfx, especially coming from a person that I hold in high regard due to your experience is an honor.
My idea of buying the GoPro came for an idea I had thought about for a few years. I wanted to take videos instead of photos of subject matter that I found interesting enough to share and when sharing it with a viewer, I wanted the viewer to feel as though I was talking with him. You know, standing beside me on the line bs'ing or sitting with me out in the fur shed. chewing the fat about trapping. It appears that from your comments, Aaron's, Musher's, Bill's, and several others it's working for some and I'm tickled!
Thanks a lot Rdfx, especially coming from a person that I hold in high regard due to your experience is an honor.
My idea of buying the GoPro came for an idea I had thought about for a few years. I wanted to take videos instead of photos of subject matter that I found interesting enough to share and when sharing it with a viewer, I wanted the viewer to feel as though I was talking with him. You know, standing beside me on the line bs'ing or sitting with me out in the fur shed. chewing the fat about trapping. It appears that from your comments, Aaron's, Musher's, Bill's, and several others it's working for some and I'm tickled!
You aren't the only one tickled. A GoPro can be a wonderful thing. Mission accomplished.
I feel I'm odd man out here- it's not that I don't think trail sets work, because of course they do-
but I've never had the situation where coyotes refuse to work lured sets AS A CLASS.
traveling together through non hunting areas, then splitting up when hunting, would be what I would expect- hunters that hunt small game (here, most often voles) aren't going to hunt in groups
I have to keep asking myself the question- WHY aren't coyotes working lured sets? I do see where after I've been there, and killed coyotes, that the ones left become reluctant to work the same sets- but never had it happen in a fresh area.
Rdfx- you remember BK- he once told me in a discussion about BE sets vs traditional blind sets, that we were both trapping the same mink.
meaning that one that set a majority of 1 set, tended to catch the majority of his fur in that type of set.
I've made trail sets, and caught coyotes in such- but, and as you have mentioned this multiple times that your coyotes habits don't lend them selves to "the spot" thinking, "my" coyotes habits in my habitat, don't lend themselves much to using trails- and if they do use trails they are also deer trails. with the type of terrain. crops, etc. Here, the whole landscape is the trail- and any attraction (including hunting areas) have multiple, multiple access points
Your American Heritage- Hunting, Trapping and Fishing
This year I had to really get my head into trail setting early because of the lack of interest in my scented sets on some properties. Anymore, I really look forward to a good, early snow cover for my coyote trapping but circumstances may be that you/I have to step out of the box and comfort zone in order to catch coyotes. It wasn't that many years ago when I got mid-calf snow depth I was done for the sesson AND never thought of much trail setting, just pound in the walk-thrus and dirt holes but not anymore!
