Bait or lure?

[blackhammer]

Given the choice between a top notch bait or a lure which would most of you choose for coyotes? My thoughts have kind of gone to a good bait with urine. Although I usually set another set using a good mild skunky type lure at the location as well. Times of year and pups versus adults factor in? How about fox treat them different than a coyote with attractants?.

[braveheart]

I use bait early and all flat sets when ground gets like cement and use a combo of lures.I got a friend that is hammering them coyotes and only using lure I sent him to try all live market.

[trappnman]

If the choice between a true bait And lures, it would be lures hands down every time for me.

by true bait meaning piece of gopher, chunk of venison, etc

any commercial bait is bait, but is IMO opinion just a type of lure.

for a decade or more, I used nothing but commercial lures and used zero baits. the reason I went back to using baits is that I became convinced that one of the silver bullets Wiley used to talk about on coyotes, is multiple attractions- I used , and have for recent years- commercial bait, gopher, 2 lures and copious amounts of urine, at each set I make.

There are 2 schools on this blackhammer- you will soon see which one you fall into

the difference in fox, in my opinion, is that singular scents work as well as multiple ones

[blackhammer]

Thanks guys.

[k9]

I very much like multiple lures and a decent gob of bait at the set. Having said that I have killed many on just lure, lure and urine, or bait and urine. I think I get into habits which probably isn't good.

[trappincoyotes39]

Depends on what reaction the bait or lure gives and what time of year.

[trappnman]

I have to disagree- I firmly believe that a good lure, or bait works any time of the year-

that responses to either, are instinctive, and do not change

[trappincoyotes39]

Can work Tman, I have kept good record through the years and for me I have better summer time baits and lures and some well they fall apart when it gets hot just facts.

I had some name brand gland lure that was solid until it was in the lure box in the summer, then it turned to water, different smell for sure! Had this happen with more than a couple lures. Some are formulated to with stand the heat and stay more consistent than others.

I don't like runny lures I want a lure that can and will hold up in all conditions.

Some lures and a few baits are what you described good year round but plenty that aren't IMO.

[trappnman]

That could well be true TC- I haven't tried all the lures out there

but I believe that if the lure has good qualities (and if a lure breaks down, then that's a feature of THAT lure) and even then- lure keep refrigerated would be the same, but then should also work the same. But yes, I'll agree that if a lure breaks down in heat, then its not a hot weather lure but that's not an issue of "hot weather lures vs cold.

now, you might say a loud lure is better during the cold, and I'd agree- but that's for carrying power, not the odor of the lure itself

[trappincoyotes39]

No breaks down has to do with the base and how to best control break down with a preservative as well,I want a pasty lure to stay such not turn to water in the summer heat.

I had a skunky lure that lost it punch rather quickly as well, wondering if the skunk was original essence or a synthetic form? the first few weeks the skunk was very noticeable, after a few weeks easy to tell the skunk was loosing its punch.

Consistent lures are hard to find, but ones that work well and stay the same even harder anymore. When I find them I stick with them for sure.

[trappnman]

I can agree with that for sure. consistency, etc is a factor-

but so often the argument goes that certain odors are summer scents or winter scents-

and I don't buy that-

what are lures anyways, but odors that we feel will get the interest of a canine? and I think a comparison to perfume is apt- if you are attracted to a certain scent- you will be attracted to it winter spring summer and fall

[RdFx]

This quote fm Steve i would agree. With some animals it may not apply but it sure does with canines. (if you are attracted to a certain scent- you will be attracted to it winter spring summer and fall)

[TRay]

I think that for the most part a lure or bait will work year round, as most coyotes will show some interest in the right smells. With that said I think some lures or baits will show a more intense reaction at certain times of year.
In summer I use more sweet type attractions and these work well till it gets real cold then it seems they want something with a stronger rotten smell. Most likely due to energy gained from meat in much greater than fruit or other sweet products.
As temps warm up in spring than sweet baits or lures will start to work again, a exception to that is the pregnant female as she will still crave rotten meat for the high protain content. Running certain M-44 baits I will get a much higher response rate from females (90%) then males. This tells me that coyotes can change preferences for certain smells throughout the year somewhat.

[trappnman]

I won't disagree- but will point out something that surprised me- when collaring in the spring- I thought I'd catch more males, or year old pups- but the majority were nursing females- and the lures were xldc and pikaubu- a strong skunk combined with a very sweet lure- which, even today with different lures, is my go to combo- sour & sweet

I think they do have preferences at certain times of the year- but I don't think those preferences are exclusive- in other words, as TRay says a more intense reaction to some perhaps, but not to the point of excluding others.

in any case, when I have spring or summer work to do- I still reach for the time tested attractants

TRay- do you use multiple lures at sets or single lures?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman doing it year after year I think would change your mind, like saying a rabbit in distress Šounds is the go to calling sound, well it sure can be in the late summer and fall and winter but spring and summer? Things change and far better sounds to use than a rabbit in distress. No different than seasonal changes for baits and or lures to a degree higher than fall and winter.

Fresh baits in the summer I have found holds more value than late fall and winter. By fresh I mean prairie dogs ground and preserved with no tainting at all. Fall and winter better aged and a booster added.

Again there are a few lures that hold up and work year round but I tend to use more gland lure in the spring and summer versus fall . Not exclusively but more for sure,

[TRay]

Trapperman, my use of lures is mainly on M-44s where in a cluster of 4-6 I may use 2-3 different lures but only 1 per unit. For traps I now mainly use bait.
Even with bait I notice a preference change throughout the year, with milder fish based or heavy castor based baits getting a more intense reaction in warmer weather. Not saying that stinky baits don't work as they do, but I don't see the blowen out holes and multiple tracks on pattern that I see with milder baits.
I have a friend with a couple pet coyotes, he has observed that they develop a strong urge for sugar in the warmer months to the point that at times they will quit eating meat all together if allowed to make the choice. This reaction can switch 100% in the other direction during winter where many times they won't eat fruits or berries when offered to them, but instead crave meat.
I have several M-44 baits that I have good success with August thru November, but seem to drop off significantly once temps get down in the 20s, some drop off when temps get below 0. Some of it is due to amount of smell they put off in cold temps, but many times I see where coyote has investigated smell but refused to commit to pulling M-44, and usually this will repeat itself over the whole line.
Now I understand that most guys are not running M-44s, just pointing out the inteanse reaction that I'm looking for. On a trap set it may be the difference between 1 track on pattern or blowen out hole.
Trapperman, using a combination of 2 lures at a trap set defiantly would help as you are covering a bigger spectrum of the curiosity/food interest in the coyote, but how do you know if they are all attracted to 1 of the smells.
I think the key to effective lure/bait usage is confidence from the trapper, I've caught coyotes on beaver and muskrat lure, so it's not rocket science.

[trappnman]

the idea behind multiple lures, at least for me, is that yes you have the singular odors from the lures, but that the combination of multiple lures, provides a combo that "changes" the individual odors- at in 2 types of bait, and now you have a buffet table set for the coyote- I do not know if they are attracted to any of the singular lures- but it doesn't really matter because I DO know what type of combos work best. and that's contrasting lures- the old "sweet & sour" effect-

could I get the same effect with one lure? no- I do not believe so- at least not consistently.

of course food lures are better in winter... just as bait is more apt for mink during the dead of winter- but that fact doesn't change that lures SHOULD appeal at any time.

TC- a rabbit in distress call, looses appeal because its over used IMO- but I do not believe that at any time of year, rabbit distress calls will not attract coyotes- but be that as it may, I don't call enough to know, or care. As far as not doing it for years- I collared for parts of 3 springs and summers plus the occasional ADC work- and all I used with success- is curiosity lures.

so perhaps that's where I meant this discussion to go- I'm not a bit fan of baits/food lures, and in fact went years using just lures, and do understand food appeal differs by season- but a curiosity lure should not. as far as gland, I use very very little, in fact don't even have a bottle in my bag, although lori does and uses it occasionally

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman what do YOU think is the greatest response you get from curiosity lures?

The rabbit it in distress can be over used but lures and baits don't?

So you don't use much bait when coyote trapping?

Gland lure should give you the same response time after time. I have caught plenty of coyotrs on good gland lure and nothing else at a flat set or on a coyote turd.

[trappnman]

I'm not saying gland lure isn't good, or doesn't work- I am saying I prefer other types of lure that in my opinion, work better

where did I say I don't use much bait? I said YEARS AGO I went for a period when I did not, but last 15 or more years use bit, and for the past years use both a natural bait and a commercial bait.

and where did I say lures can't be over used? although in fall fur trapping, IMNSFHO they cannot- I re caught 6 of my collared coyotes, so am not too much a believer in a "bad experience" putting coyotes off a lure or bait- not when you got a year in between- several of those recaught, within weeks- same farm, same lures

what do I feel is the response?

investigation due to innate traits- a deal they can't pass up. Curiosity lures work consistently- its the nature of their being- when sex and food lures do not always appeal- as you yourself pointed out

[trappincoyotes39]

Question was what is the response to curiosity lures? Blown out holes, length of time investigating etc. What makes a curiosity lure in the fall better than gland,food lures? or is their no REAL difference when we look at the break down of a given coyote population in the fall?

I have a few favorites that are food based lures that work for many months out of the year with consistent results. The holes get dug out 3-4x's the size made, to me that is an important trait for sure.

We know doyotes are skittish to begin with so keeping them at a set is paramount and some lures and baits do a better job than others, that skittish behavior does change seasonally as well, so I feel by changing to match the life cycle has been better than sticking with the same General stuff year round.

Many people think the winter is the toughest time for coyotres, but has anyone thought of August and Sept being lean months for a coyote? All the prey base left is older and wiser, those pups are bigger and need more food and some game is harder to come by, hence the diet change to what is so called in season and really available.