bait it up????

[Nick C]

Look at this! In Iowa. Coyotes killing a fawn on trail camera.

trophypursuit.com/youradventures/2012/09/03/amazing-coyotefawn-predation-pictures-with-jordan-feller/

Hey Guys, why do you spose we're told to BAIT IT UP???!!??!!??

Why do you spose we're told to set MORE than 2 traps??

Why do you spose O'Gorman, on page 57 of Hoofbeats says:

It is no wonder why so many of today's trappers that have been sold on the lure makers sales pitch of non meat scent, don't catch the coyotes they could or should. Think for a second, if you were a carnivore and a pup coyote in the fall, and all that you could catch or find easy was grasshoppers and fruit, here was a nice gob of real meat, wouldn't you go for that over an egg or honey based fruit scent?

and goes on to say...

There are times that pup droppings are full of plums or grasshoppers, but these same coyotes will vote for steak in a minute!

Do you spose the "spot" changed that night?


It's my understanding that predator control is a big part of hunting clubs in the south, I wonder if many outfitters are currently having predator control done on their ground in Iowa or at least open minded to the idea for the future?

One might wonder how many potential trophy class deer ended up with a neck bite and getting its hind quarter ate up.

[Coon King IV]

There alot harder on deer than their given credit for. I kill atleast one every year chasing deer. Its usually a buck too.

[trappnman]

depends on your populations- here, the collaring study, and the fecal analysis, showed deer to be a very, very small part of their diet.

I'd discuss your questions nick, but since you never come back to a thread you start, why bother

[blackhammer]

There probably should be more studies done as conditions and coyotes change over time. Around here I think just from observing deer and a higher coyote population than I'e seen before that they may be killing more deer. This year I've have seen a lot of deer with no fawns or just one. Which is not the norm and I think coyotes may be playing a large part in that.

[Coon King IV]

What Ive really noticed is from about Christmas to mid March just about every pile of scat I find has alot of deer hair in it.

[bghunter119]

Sept 5, 2012 18:36:27 GMT -6 Coon King IV said:

What Ive really noticed is from about Christmas to mid March just about every pile of scat I find has alot of deer hair in it.

it happens around here too that time of year, but i believe it is because of the deer hunting seasons going on then and they are feeding on the carcasses, our seasons start in Sept and run till Jan. this year we will probably have alot of deer hair since blue tongue is coming thru and there are deer dieing around here

[trappnman]

because from Christmas to mid march- there are a lot of dead deer in the woods

a scat study done here over a year, showed deer very far down the list vis vis being contained in their droppings

[mustelameister]

I've heard from several reliable sources that game cams set up near coyote dens showed fawns going down the hole to maybe feed the pups? One fella quit counting, according to him, at 20 in the space of less than three weeks.

[blackhammer]

I hope they kill every deer in southeastern Mn. The trophy buck crowd is a pet peeve of mine and a bad mindset for outdoorsmen. The idea of huting big bucks is fine. But the mesage sent to new hunters that it is all about the trophy has taken over. Not to mention the deer crowd running all the other outdoorsmen out of the woods so to speak. How about some kids actually hunting some squirrels?
I think coyotes are killing more deer down here. But I think it is because we have more coyotes than I have ever seen here. No longlining wolfers down here.

[trappnman]

you would think in that three weeks, that deer hunter would have eliminated that den.......

I hear about it al lthe time- and can only say this:

the coyote study I participated in was done not under a predator study grant, but was done in conjuction (and was the main reason for the collaring) with a deer study where they had 80-100 does and their fawns tracked, and the collared coyotes were to see the interaction with the deer.

none occurred, and this was ALL done in the heart of the deer study. in additon, throughout the seasons, scat was regularly collected and the results were that deer, were far down the list.

the #1 food source found in the scat- was voles.

vegitation, small mammals, etc were at the top of the list.

not to say coyotes don't eat deer, of course they do- but at least in the study here, it as a non started insofar as hurting deer populations.

[garbage collector]

Tman what yr was that study done in? Then ask has the yote population increased or decreased, vs the deer herd. An article I had read stated as you did on the studies in yrs past then as the yotes increased the deer herd decreased. Fawns mortality jumped tremendously yeah( no kidding).
I've seen plenty of trail cam pics to say you better believe they chomp them down, remember they are oportunists and the fawns are easy pickings. Back 20 yrs ago when I used to do alot of hiking you always found deer hair in the scat, no matter what time of yr. The GF guys still told us it was from roadkills, this area was a remote area with all dirt roads and very little traffic. HMm

[kskoons]

With all the small game and birds here, I would think that deer would be way down the list too. But if I had a lease or took hunters out for money to kill deer, then one buck killed by anything other than my hunter is bad for business. When I asked a question on coyote predation on deer, Kirk Dekalb had video of bitch coyotes taking fawns to the den, one took 30 in 30 days, on video, and this was not out west, it was back east, I forget the state. Anyway it does happen and sometimes, evidently, alot!

[trappincoyotes39]

timing and weather will play a big part in most studies as to how much deer you find in coyote scat.

[trapperpatt]

I believe it's geographical. Down here I believe they hit the fawns purdy hard. The country is real thick. Gives the yotes an upperhand. One year I had cameras out all year didn't get a pic of a littlun. Had plenty of yotes though. Don't have that problem around here anymore though.

[ChrisM]

Id like to see those pics they claim to have. Coyotes dont feed meat to pups down the hole.

A fawn collaring study in NE years ago showed that coyotes accounted for 50% of all fawn mortality over the summer. A similar study is being conducted currently here in SD. It began with 14 mule deer fawns collared on the grassland... 4 have been killed so far.

Coyotes kill deer, lots of them. They're even harder on the antelope.

[bogio]

Switching gears a little.

It's been mentioned several times that carcass are a benefit when presented correctly. SH said they needed to be presented "naturally". What is the correct or natural way to place/present carcasses?

[Nick C]

Bogio, i believe if you watched Andy and 1080s videos over the years, the show you ever so slightly where to "bait it up".

Then again, I couldve came to false conclusions on my own.

There has been a lot of guys putting trail cameras on sets to test lures and baits, etc. And some, i hate to call it "conclusions" from what they have gathered. Now I wonder how those same animals react to the same lures and baits, when these same animals are put in the "mood" to work those lures and baits. Perhaps a before and after, could tell an individual a lot about the presence of a, lets call it, "mood enhancer".

Another question, regarding the trail camera pics I linked to. But is it a safe assumption, that Aug 22nd of this year was not the first fawn rodeo that coyote participated in, and nor was it the last? But is there studies or trappers experience that now once these coyotes have the TASTE of venison, and has experienced the THRILL of the kill, that it now prefers this to any other meal and will seek it? Granted, the coyote being an opportunist won't pass up an easy meal.

[bogio]

I guess what I'm eluding to is that it has been suggested that certain presentations of carcasses might actually be detrimental. I tend to put them into cover somewhat and generally a little lower in elevation in relationship to my sets.

[wink]

wvgazette.com/Outdoors/201204280147

[trapperpatt]

www.aonmag.com/article.php?id=2452Y

MSU Study article. http://www.northcountryw...icles/QDMandcoyotes.htm