Coyote Sets

[bogio]

What does the majority use? Or is there a majority?

I once used a pretty even mix of flats and holes. Once in a while tried some posts. The studies have kicked them out of the running for good. Most writers advocate mixing it up. Some of the old wolfers just used one set. Many were flat set men.

I've switched to all hole sets, except at one location. They all look basicly the same. Hole changes size or shape but the basic construction stays the same. My own version of a Robbins style dirt hole. Rarely have much of a backing. Not a huge pattern but good sized with the approach blended to avoid a hard edge. Generally spray them down with urine.

I'm considering bringing more flats into the mix. Possibly there are animals resistant to hole sets. Wondered how you all looked at/approached this.

[trappnman]

I've come full circle on set types over the years.

Starting out, I used dirtholes, cause that was all I knew- and small, not so much fox type of sets, but more coon dirthole type of sets since that was what I knew.

I then heard of flat sets, and tried to use some of them, and failed miserably. I was even at the point I thought flat sets were a type of joke, cause I sure couldn't figure them out.

I was lucky, in the first coyote book I ever bought, was Miranda's that included a pretty good description/pics of a walk through type flat set, I began trying those and had immediate success, far out producing my hole sets of the time.

So for several years, I set 90% and more flat sets. This led to a period where my flat sets became almost invisible to the eye, and if I didn't make a catch, many I didn't know exactly where they were until I pulled them.

This led to a discussion with Wiley, and his comment "so in effect, you are just using their nose to find your sets" so started making more visible flat sets, and about the same time frame started using the Leggetts type stepdown in areas I thought produced fox-and found that I was catching a disportional amount of coyotes in those sets- so evolved into setting 50/50 walkthroughs and stepdowns.

That continued to a5-6 years ago, when we had a very wet summer and early fall, and vegetation was everywhere, overgrown pastures, tall grass the norm, true flat set locations a rarity, so that year made very few flat sets.

and then the next year, did about the same since I was now in a "hole set" mood.

part of the run and gun, was in my thoughts, getting sets noticed bing bang and on my way, so 2 years ago, made only a few flat sets, and this past year, made no sets.

Even in spots that were ideal for a flat set- for example a stretch of powder dry manure dust- where I thought a flat set would be good here...but yet, with the dried manure, I could have a hole set with a football field blended pattern- so I set hole sets, and took 4 there I think.

would I catch a few more by mixing up sets? I don't know- but I am of the conviction that if there is a certain criteria you feel appeals to the most coyotes, most of the time- then why not give every set that best chance?

and that criteria for me- big baits in the hole, lots of lure and urine aren't too subtle- so shouldn't the set match?

but for the pure pleasure of it, I DO like making flat sets.

[mtcbrlatrap]

I have used for years the basic concept of Tom's walk through sets, some with dirt and some with grass (clippings) I make one mound larger than the other with lure and the bigger hole under the larger pile and the urine on the smaller pile. I seem to catch more animals in the grass sets then the dirt ones but my main quesiton is I catch about 4 times as many fox as yotes and I live in an area where 50-50 would be the norm. The piles are probably 6-9 inches high (large ones) and the trap is between the two with about 3-4 inches between the set jaws and each of the two piles. How large of pattern do those of you using a walk trough use for a more coyote type set?

Bryce

[trappnman]

I use a triangular palcing of "backings" or jaw guards- I usually use small grass clumps, with them being roughly at 10, 2, and 6- and use vertical holes, with the trap tight between them- what I do try to do, is have a very large extended pattern of dust, manure, etc.

If I can't blend a large pattern, I passed by the flat sets.

[mtcbrlatrap]

I extend the pattern out to as well and that really seems to work well with foxes in the grass sets. This year I am working on more trap stability and also more pan tension as last year I had more snapped traps than I feel I should have had.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Use what fits the area your setting best has been my deal and at times in certain soils almost impossible to dig a hole. Flat sets 60%+ and rest hole type sets.

Walk throughs most of the time unless I have a great backing then the walk through isn't needed. I do use a loose jaw guard at almost ALL sets and my pan is the lowest point on the pattern. Not step down low but the lowest point.

After watching Jc Conners videos I was surpised at how close my setting techniques mirroed what he has done and the ideology behind it as well.

His blind set video is well worth the investment and has really helped at times as well. I like at times to add varity and a good trench set along a trail/ slow up spot is great.

[bogio]

Jul 31, 2012 19:43:35 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

Use what fits the area your setting best has been my deal and at times in certain soils almost impossible to dig a hole. Flat sets 60%+ and rest hole type sets.

Walk throughs most of the time unless I have a great backing then the walk through isn't needed. I do use a loose jaw guard at almost ALL sets and my pan is the lowest point on the pattern. Not step down low but the lowest point.

After watching Jc Conners videos I was surpised at how close my setting techniques mirroed what he has done and the ideology behind it as well.

His blind set video is well worth the investment and has really helped at times as well. I like at times to add varity and a good trench set along a trail/ slow up spot is great.

Will you go into the first line a little deeper? Are you just referring to the soil type dictates the set or do you feel different locations call for different sets? You have referred to sets in past posts as natural. I've wondered if you meant the construction technique/blend job or what fits the set location you've picked.

[bogio]

I started out dirt trapping coon in dirt holes with #1 B&L ls. Angled hole with a trowel, chop up a bed with a hoe, bed trap and go. Worked fairly well.

Decided to try fox, bought 1 1/2 coils and built the same set. Didn't work as well for fox. Lots of dancing around with no commital. Caught some but....you know. Experimented around and started making a hole with no visible pattern. Very tight bed, packed hard and blended back to invisible. Labor intensive but caught more fox and my first coyotes. Progressed into walk thrus and step downs, catch was increasing but because of 1 1/2 size traps and the small patterns that went with them, coyotes did a lot of standing back and looking.

When I made the jump to the #3 Montys and started buildng sets to fit them, things started happening! I've made adjustments as time has past, arriving at the set I'm using presently.

[trappincoyotes39]

All of the above. No hard lines and blended in sets. Make a set that fit's in well in the area.

Yucca's great DH location awsome in fact coyotes are accustomed to seeing such, flat set in a bare spot along the travel way, badger digging's hole sets, and also what is the most easy to get in which mostly are flats in hard ground.

Gumbo at times when dry is about impossible for a hole set, like concrete no sense in fighting pick good flat set spots.

The only thing good workable soil affords you over hard pan is the ability to match the set to the surrounding and blend in faster at times. Not to mention staking love being back in farm ground and hardwood soil, sure beats the heck out of shale rock and hard gumbo.

[trappincoyotes39]

This is some of that hard pan notice hardly any tore up area because of the ground being so hard! Flat sets quicker and easier.

[trappincoyotes39]

1080 you are correct it comes with a price, rain what is that ?


Not going to lie do miss many parts of what I left, except that soil for now



Been awhile since I visited with Glen, one of the good ones! My time spent with him before he retired from the program was great.

[trappnman]

personally, as much as I like flat sets- I'd never make one in the type of habitat shown.

Why?

too much "same ole" habitat, nothing to distinguish anything from anything.

why not use visuals as well as scent?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman as I have stated prior when your on the location I would rather the coyote find it with his nose than his/her eye's. I use the wind all the time and have the line of travel down, also to help lessen chances of other catches, notice the fresh cow pie supremes around.

If I remember right this was an early spring calving deal?

Differance is the smell!

[seldom]

As a follow-up to TC's reply, remember one of the first studies 1080 tipped us to? 96-108.pdf.

[trappnman]

the question of does a coyote use his ears, eyes or nose the most has been discussed many times.

I have to say, that at the period when I used mostly flat sets, I was under the impression that a coyote not only used his nose more, but used it more by a large %.

As I said before, Wiley got me thinking about appealing to all his senses, and then the research I found, showed that to not be necessarily true-

that a coyote actually was more successful in noticing and becoming aware of objects by sight, more so than nose.

therefore, I felt (and feel) that the approach for me, was to give them a visual (and something I did quite often, and still do to an extent, is place a rib bone unlured, etc close to but not at the set as a long range visual attractant) and then once within sight of the visual, give their nose a chance to do the work.

I do that primarily now with big patterns and hole sets.

One thing we need to consider I think, in coyote trapping, is in reality, how far does just lure attract?

I haven't seen research on this, (if anyone has a link I'd be interested in seeing it) but decades of following beagles and other hounds, has given me a fair whack of insight on how canines work and react to scent.

I've seen it where a hound turns into a direction, and goes straight to a location 100 yards away and jumps a bunny- but I've also seen where a bunny is 2-3 feet way, and he hasn't a clue.

I've seen them tongue rabbits down blacktop roads- and I've seen where in a dappled area, any sunny places are devoid of scent- yet get in the shade, and its a hot trail.

point being, scent is a tricky and nebulous quality- and I'm thinking that lures, day in and day out- "draw" coyotes in from a distance far, far less than even I think. And I don't think that's far.

Which, since its the logical next step, brings up amount of lure usage. how much does a few drops of lure, get out there to do its job? How much of a scent trail does a few drops of lure create?

If lure is going to be your only attractant, why not use copious amounts/

yes, I understand being right on location- but again, how small and precise must that location be, where scent alone, provides success?

pretty small in my opinion.

TC- what is on the left side of that picture? is it the same grass pasture as the rest of the photo?

yes, you caught that coyote, but do you think every coyote traveling that amount of space, with that amount of same type habitat, will pass by your set?

my question is this- what did you think a flat set there, would do for you what a hole set would not?

In other words- setting on location, why not make it a visual set
to expand your attraction range.

Wiley also told me in his opinion, when coyotes could not see the source of an odor, he believed they worked a set more cautiously. Do you subscribe to that thought?

Again, not to get me wrong, I loved flat sets- thought they were the ticket, and caught lots of coyotes in them. I started with the walk through, but with hidden lure holes.

but after my talk with Wiley etc, I became more visual, and as I became more visual and started having more success, flat sets became fewer and fewer.

now- and here's where you can bust my balls- I have come to believe there IS a silver bullet in coyote trapping-

I DO believe, that there is a set that can be constructed in such a manner, that it alleviates or reduces cautious behaviors, and appeals to innate "aggressive" type behaviors

and by putting this set on locations that use coyotes inherent behavior traits, you will catch the most coyotes in the shortest time

As such, I cannot find it inmy heart, to make sets I know don't follow the criteria I beleive gives maximum success.

and no, I'm not there yet, but I'm gaining.......

[seldom]

Aug 9, 2012 8:57:00 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I DO believe, that there is a set that can be constructed in such a manner, that it alleviates or reduces cautious behaviors, and appeals to innate "aggressive" type behaviors

and by putting this set on locations that use coyotes inherent behavior traits, you will catch the most coyotes in the shortest time
...

.....and regardless of whether it's familiar or unfamiliar territory........I agree!

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman this wasn't an area to take the "most" coyotes but to take the coyote causing issues in the calving pasture.

So a coyote that hunts in the dead of night and having eye's closer to a humans than a felines, meaning night time vision not as apt as their day time vision trust their noses more so than eye sight.

Best I can tell you is calling coyotes and see how many will come in downwind versus those that come straight into the sound or visual decoy. They can see a decot they can hear the sound but the nose is what tell's them on the final approach many times. By placing the e caller in a postion taking "clear" advantage of this trait you can bring them in on a dime many times.

Calling coyotes will show you just how good their noses are from a distance of 100-200 yrds and the right wind direction.

If a coyote smells the rabbitt in the bush but can't see it does he approach with more caution and how much more? If he hears and smells a mouse under the snow is he more cautious or does he work until he has a chance to catch the mouse? If I bury bait in a hole yet he can't see it does he then fear the bait beucase it is burried or does the sight of the hole make things all better?

Does a visual always have to be a big pattern with a hole?

What this set did that a hole set wouldn't is have sprung traps by cattle they are a visual critter as well.

It is coyote trapping not coyote law, so do as you wish.

So 1080 asked me to refresh his memory well maybe mine is needed to LOL. I have alot of pictures some are labeled and some aren't this one is not, the main point was the hard soil, but this dry wash goes to the right into a wooded draw which affords cover and a travel way for coyotes, the poles is a 2 track trail running along it that to the upper left drops back into the long wooded draw.

What you don't see is at the bottom of the pick on the shelf of a steep cut bank is a dead cow they have been feeding on if my memory is correct? The 2 track has cattle and human traffic as the water source is to upper left down the 2 track trail at a creek crossing. The bottom of the pick is a high cut bank 20 ft or more tall the 2 points of entry and exit in this cattle pasture are at both ends of the dry wash. The tree is to the NE the steep bank left is west and the right is east.

This dynamic changes come summer time still coyotes and still working his sheep they den in the wooded draw/creek but this pasture is all grown up and they use the 2 track trail over to the right where the sheep are kept from lambing time through summer.

Here is another pick follow the dry wash down to the right hand corner and leads into that wooded draw I'm talking about. Great travel way for coyotes and denning locations in the spring. Runs for 4-5 miles.



I DO believe, that there is a set that can be constructed in such a manner, that it alleviates or reduces cautious behaviors, and appeals to innate "aggressive" type behaviors

Please expound on this sentence. Are you talking in any ground cover and terrian? Are all coyotes agressive at all times of the year?

Coyotes are opportunistic critters for sure. I don't know how agressive they get in mid august when they are filling their bellys full of grasshoppers and they see and smell them and just eat them, nothing romantic about that or black beetles, same with rotten meat and abelly full of maggots.

Not trying to be sarcastic at all just stating what I have seen in coyotes and I don't buy the silver bullet set for ALL coyotes ALL the time, just differances is all. I'm entrigued by what you have to say as being that silver bullet and willing to learn a tip or two, so please expound on the agressive nature type setting procedure.

For the record most ALL my sets have 2 smells comming from them and not all have just 4 drops .

[bogio]

That picture showing the circle on the hard pan reminds me of my catch circles in January.

Are both animals caught in close proximity to the carcass you spoke of?

[trappnman]

TC- I fully understand you were after a specific coyote- and your answer of cows is all that's required to my question on why a flat set.

would a coyote approach something he couldn't see but could smell with more caution? I would think so, common sense tells us if an animal is hunting, and smells quarry and his style of kill is to pounce, then he would approach it with all other senses at max, and cautiously so yes, I'd expect so.

but here perhaps is a more apt comparison. How does a dog, react to an unknown scent?

almost inevitably, he stops, maybe backs up a little then nose extended, body almost quivering, he approaches it, finds it, and then depending on how it reacts with him could do many things- just sniff it, dig, roll, etc

and a coyote is going to be how many more times cautious than a domestic dog?

human scent when calling has little do do with lures.

A human walking to a stand, or sitting is going to have a cloud of scent over the area- heck, quite literally, Buddy can smell a deer in a field 50-75 yards awayand more IN THE CAR, windows closed with air vents open. Quite a few times, as we go by he gets all excited, nose at the vents and whimpering (he likes deer).

Hes not doing that with 3 drops of lure down a hole.......

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Do I think the only visual is a big hole and pattern? no, of course not- I stated that very clearly. What I did say, was that I've gone more and more to a big hole/pattern as my visual.

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All that research you dismissed? The whole point of it all was behaviors. Aggressive behaviors (although in working sets perhaps"bold" might be a better term or perhaps "relaxed"), and submissive or non aggressive type behaviors.

and by recalling observations on the line over the years, location versus location vis a vis success rates both in time and animals, and then add what the research shows and what 1080 has albeit slowly gotten through my head (and I'm sorry, but what 1080 did in IN, is ASTOUNDING in what it accomplished in that time frame, basically cold rolling) -

is that yes, using coyote behaviors, giving them what they want where they want it, is going to give you a much higher success rate (both in time & animals) then setting for those same animals in other locations. and yes, of course you WILL catch coyotes in those other locations as well.

And that in doing so- that the vast majority of time, for the vast majority of coyotes, there is going to be a "super set" if you will, that not only will take coyotes, but take the maximum number in the shortest time.

In other words- a universally appealing set to all classes of coyotes.

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Let me make it clear, there are exceptions to the above.

let me go back to that females I caught last month. She was coming into the spot (the bales) but not regularly (quite obvious from the sign).

I think him seeing the coyote on the bales was a random thing, and that it wasn't going to reoccur enough to matter (again based on the lack of sign and I had both mud and dust to work in)

but I figured was in the area, felt like trapping a coyote, would get paid for it if I did and I told him I needed to charge a setup fee either way, so figured why not.

I knew it would be a waiting game, and if she came by bonus- took 8 days. and no fresh sign until that day.

So in effect, I took one on a travel route over a week-

if I would have found the spot she and her pups, probably the male were in, I could have, in a day or two, taken perhaps them all.

but I didn't want the pups, and it was hot and I didn't care enough to really make the effort in that situation-

------------------------------

Back to the silver bullet.

Yes, I do believe that there is a set that does appeal universally. That as I said, alleviates their suspicious or innate natures and makes them work set in a relaxed and bolder manner.

I don't know exactly what it is, but have the general idea & feel I'm on the right track and getting closer.

and that can be summed up in a few words- I'm trying to make COYOTE sets.

[bogio]

Dug in the archives to find the study Seldom mentioned:

www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/96pubs/96-108.pdf




Something else that I found that was of great interest was this post from 1080:

"I HAVE seen penned coyotes at the research facility,and been shown by the Foremost researchers, past or present,critical behavior by coyotes under a myriad of conditions.
Things that when applied to trapping..IE.approach to objects,angle of approach to stimuli,wind,etc,etc are FAR MORE useful in many regards to the actual setting.
Where to set,what is pertinent to a set in regards to acceptance has been more valuable to me than much of what I have read in field study for general behavior in certain conditions across the country.

What you learn are certain things are innate and consistant.How you present a set,and WHERE is of utmost importance."




I read that and realized it was quite similiar in message to an article Major Boddicker has in the current American Trapper. He talks of an extensive study which concluded that the most effecient setting technique involved 2 traps set in an equalateral triangle configuration to the attractant. He cites that the study showed that things such as wind direction/animal approach angle/attractant presentation/behavioral triggers are of the utmost importance.

I then recalled a conversation with Tom Miranda at convention where he stated that his walk thru set was based on a study involving 2 traps set in a triangle with the attractant. He reversed the principle to use 2 attractant positions in a triangle with a single trap to reduce equipment use.