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Post by trappnman on May 25, 2012 8:00:44 GMT -6
I've heard that before about the transplanted beaver- concerning the effect on southern fur quality in some aeras
I have no doubt, the beaver mentioned graded as they did- but whether thats from introduced genetics, I don't know.
I have a whole lot of doubt based on genetics, that after generations upon generations, that the transplanted beaver's following generations wouldn't, after time, revert to the hair quality, leather, color etc of the native beaver-
What caused the local beaver to have certain characteristics would apply to any added animals as well.
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Post by calvin on May 25, 2012 9:19:41 GMT -6
been told the same about NC beaver. Can spot the transplants (from WI) before getting to the trap. The WI beaver look pretty nice...and still build a cache. local beaver look crappy and no cache pile. Cant remember exactly when the WI beaver were transplanted. Think it was around the 1940s??? though. Maybe someone can give a more accurate time frame. They must be still waiting for winter to hit. Apparently haven't figured it out just yet.
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Post by blackhammer on May 25, 2012 10:36:59 GMT -6
I've heard that before about the transplanted beaver- concerning the effect on southern fur quality in some aeras I have no doubt, the beaver mentioned graded as they did- but whether thats from introduced genetics, I don't know. I have a whole lot of doubt based on genetics, that after generations upon generations, that the transplanted beaver's following generations wouldn't, after time, revert to the hair quality, leather, color etc of the native beaver- What caused the local beaver to have certain characteristics would apply to any added animals as well. The makes sense to me. It is funny how much fur differs from location to location.I know a buyer was telling me even a western Mn rat has a little different fur quality than a n.e. South Dakota rat Just a matter of a few hundred miles makes a difference.In coon the ones from western Mn and South Dakota have much better color than mine. I remember a guy at Nafa was showing me the locations were their top beaver lot came from.One of those advertising type lots that went for hundreds of dollars a skin.If I remember right they all exclusively came from extreme NE Mn and farther north along Lake Superior. You look at coyotes you would sure think over the course of time the nice western coyotes would have migrated and changed our genetics here in Mn .I think they disperse here but probably because of environment more or less become our mostly commercial coyote after time.It does explain why from time to time you get a few really nice coyotes here too.But after a generation of two they become what some call a brush wolf.A burdock vacuuming,long maned dog.I have some guys say there are a few more nicer coyotes here than there once was though. |
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 25, 2012 14:15:07 GMT -6
Your a category on to yourself.  I like to think so  . You figure out yet why I could catch as many beaver with a year round at home job instead of the one I got? You alluded to it. ICE. Only trapping I pretty much get to do now is on the ice. 1994 I caught 113 beaver in 2 weeks and put them up in time for the june north bay auction. I was working 6 days a week at the time and it was 5 ten and an eight. Gary, I'd say that on a flat out guess on my part 30 to 40 thousand beaver come out of mn year after year. How many come out of the carolinas? Also ontario is rought 415 thousand square miles,manitoba about 250 thosuand, sask. about 250 thousand quebec is knocking on about 600 thousand square miles. The carolina's combine is less than a hundred thousand total. Do the math. |
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Post by thebeav2 on May 25, 2012 15:06:54 GMT -6
Also ontario is rought 415 thousand square miles,manitoba about 250 thosuand, sask. about 250 thousand quebec is knocking on about 600 thousand square miles.
But you seem to forget that's not ALL beaver country. And probably over half Is so remote It's inaccessible. My buddy and his wife both had a registered trap line. But were probably 50 square miles In size. His wives line was devoid of any water what so ever. And you would be hard pressed to catch 20 or so beaver off his line. Just because Canada Is big doesn't mean there Is a beaver behind every tree.
Every part of the South Carolina Is aeccesable and you have no Ice to deal with. Not many beaver come out of that part of the country because of the work ethics. I'm just trying to be nice to my southern friends.
If beaver prices would warrant a trip south a couple of hard working trappers could put up some huge numbers In short time. And the 100 or so Incidental otter would just be frosting on the cake. And did I mention NO ICE.
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Post by blackhammer on May 25, 2012 15:20:08 GMT -6
It would be fun trapping in the south some January. Are there or could one guy catch a hundred otter in some of those areas?
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 25, 2012 16:29:45 GMT -6
Paul, I am sure a guy from MN could get it done ha.
No I didnt forget that much of it isnt beaver country gary.
But if 20 percent is.... Do the math.
If a man lived his whole life in southern mn and never got out or heard anything he'd call you a flat out liar the day you told him MN is beaver country.
Conversely if you told an ole hermit in NE corner of mn that there were tons of coon in mn he'd say you are daffy.
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Post by thebeav2 on May 25, 2012 18:02:01 GMT -6
BlackHammer I've done 80 otter twice over a two month period. Most times It runs 60+ for the two months I'm there. When I first arrived on the scene I could catch beaver In any wet spot. But over a 15 year period you can put a hurt on the beaver population. But with a bit of hard work I think It'd still be do able. But Old age Is now rearing It's nasty head and I don't know If I can take the punishment anymore. Now If I had a couple of guys like Steven with size 44 shirts and a size 4 hat size with me I could just point and holler.  But I guess I could hire on to do the skinning. But then you guys are probably like Gappster and want to sleep In your own beds every night.  |
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Post by musher on May 25, 2012 18:14:39 GMT -6
In Quebec we have lots of water and we have lots of beaver. buts what's lots to us might not be lots to you.
On a small pond you'll have a family of beaver. On a large lake you'll have a family, or two, of beaver. That means you can harvest 2 beaver off of a body of water every 3 years or so if you're chasing blankets.
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Post by CoonDuke on May 25, 2012 19:10:37 GMT -6
My experience in NC is limited to a few counties. The NC beaver mix right in with my PA beaver at the fur buyer. That being said, I don't think the beaver coming out of PA are exceptional but the area I trap in NC has a decent animal. The thing about NC is that they have a written permission law which is the biggest hurdle to putting up big numbers. If they had ROW trapping, I don't know what would be possible but it would be a lot. I would estimate if you could cross 100 bridges you would be looking at 200 plus beaver without ever having to to put hip boots on. You would burn some gas doing it though.
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Post by thebeav2 on May 25, 2012 19:30:29 GMT -6
SC Is the same way but I have never had one written permission slip In my jeans yet. Oh ya I did go to jail for a hour or so till the judge took my money. With In 5 days my record was clean and I had a check from the magistrates office. Never had another problem. Just have to know the right people.
There was one large culvert we had to cross every day and 22 days later I had 22 beaver and 10 otter.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on May 25, 2012 21:37:19 GMT -6
Gary, I'd love to do a NC/SC run some day. Have to wait for the rat prices to come down though.
When I start sleeping in my own bed too much, the wife says its time for you to find a job lol.
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Post by irnhdmike on May 28, 2012 7:17:21 GMT -6
I'm sure genetics is key but I believe environment is important to quality of fur especially thickness and length. Look at the difference in coat of a dog that lives outdoors compared to one that lives in the house. Oo gues I wouldn't know about warm climates but her in cold climates definitely is a difference.
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Post by RdFx on May 28, 2012 9:34:00 GMT -6
PAUL Dobbins mentioned to me about the Wisc transplanted bvr in NC. I believe it was in northern part of state. I dont know why they wanted to transplant our bvr unless to make better pelts. Paul mentioned that if you trap the bvr during season and in both NC bvr colonies and NC bvr transplanted colonies you can see the differance plus when you get your fur check , the Wisc bvr are definately higher in selling prices.
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Post by packerfan on May 28, 2012 10:42:00 GMT -6
What suprises me, is that they wanted the transplants at all. I thought they were over run with beaver, or had too many in the past. I think the genetics play a HUGE part in this debate. With the exception of pigs, I think it takes a while for a species to evolve much in a new area.
P.S.- I just drove past Beav's place and saw he put in a "rat pond" in the backyard. Beav, are you going to transplant those rats in S.D.?
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Post by RdFx on May 28, 2012 13:34:25 GMT -6
thanks mightydog, where did you find info?
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Post by mattduncan on May 28, 2012 22:01:08 GMT -6
Also ontario is rought 415 thousand square miles,manitoba about 250 thosuand, sask. about 250 thousand quebec is knocking on about 600 thousand square miles. But you seem to forget that's not ALL beaver country. And probably over half Is so remote It's inaccessible. My buddy and his wife both had a registered trap line. But were probably 50 square miles In size. His wives line was devoid of any water what so ever. And you would be hard pressed to catch 20 or so beaver off his line. Just because Canada Is big doesn't mean there Is a beaver behind every tree. Every part of the South Carolina Is aeccesable and you have no Ice to deal with. Not many beaver come out of that part of the country because of the work ethics. I'm just trying to be nice to my southern friends. If beaver prices would warrant a trip south a couple of hard working trappers could put up some huge numbers In short time. And the 100 or so Incidental otter would just be frosting on the cake. And did I mention NO ICE. ontario and Quebec produce roughly 50,000 beaver each a year these numbers are from 2006 to 2010 |
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Post by minkman99 on May 29, 2012 12:13:56 GMT -6
It looks like beaver may become the new "poor man's mink". Leather too heavy and when sheared beaver kinda has a wavy look. Not much that can compete with the genetics of ranch mink.
Muskrats should stay hot. I heard they use the rat bellys especially as the coat liners.
Coyotes are still a pain to tan as the thick fur can get notted up. So it can be a slower tanning process, but they work beautifully as hood liners.
Coons are just not a glamorous fur, but a good cheap alternative when needed.
A stable world economy and of course a good cold winter will do a lot for the fur market.
Section 3 ranch mink bringing at to above presale valuation today. Very good demand to start the sale.
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Post by mtcbrlatrap on May 29, 2012 12:30:06 GMT -6
The fact that heavier leather fur and even yotes and fox (long hair fur) are on the rise may be an indication that many more "average size" Asians male and female are buying more fur. More middle class citizens and not just the more slender smaller frame yuppies etc. That could bode well for beaver and fox and maybe longer term coon again. When you see the models wearing fur they are about the size of a weasel, it bodes well for us that more "well fed" normal bodied people want to buy and wear fur.
Bryce
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Post by calvin on May 29, 2012 17:45:37 GMT -6
Don't they shave down the leather on beaver anyhow?
I hear that the beaver fur, once plucked and sheared, appears very close to ranch mink.
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