|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 4, 2012 17:02:49 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 5, 2012 7:16:04 GMT -6
forty years ago, I was a rabbit hunting fool. I had 50+ hounds on my Dad's farm, and I hunted hard and trialed hard.
Every day off for the entire season, we hunted bunnies, and would take hundreds every year, all in front of the hounds
As the years went by, I noticed something- many of our locations, that one could go through and get multiple strikes and killed a lot of bunnies each time- gradually became places where we had to work very hard for a strike, and even harder to get a good run. bunnies we took there, were jump shot more often than not instead of the traditional chase.
Yet- the locations STILL showed the same amount of sign.
What had happened?
What happened, was over the years, we had artificially stacked the population of rabbits in these locations.
We routinely shot the BOLD rabbits- those that #1 spent a lot of time above ground, and had the run rather than hide reaction to pursuit.
what we had left, were rabbits that did the opposite- preferred being denned up underground during the day, and if flushed, preferred to den up, rather than run.
A study in NE on pheasants on public grounds, showed that over the years, the numbers of birds shot, decreased substantially, even though the populations of birds remained consistent.
What was occurring, was the strain of pheasants there, became overpopulated by birds that ran, rather than flushed, and those genetic tendencies were becoming the norm, not the exception.
So reading this study............................
|
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 5, 2012 9:35:00 GMT -6
Between this study and the "visual & olfactory stimuli" study I think I'm developing a better picture as to what may be going on in the deeper snow, mid-winter months. They also appear to explain why a 2nd settings of a property may be a good plan or not, which also takes place in mid-winter.
|
|
|
|
Post by lureshy on Mar 5, 2012 13:42:27 GMT -6
Am I on the correct study? Dominance and neophobia in coyote breeding pairs
|
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 5, 2012 13:43:56 GMT -6
Am I on the correct study? Dominance and neophobia in coyote breeding pairs Yup! Neither study is about snow or late season specifically, that's my extrapolation pertaining to my specific circumstance. |
|
|
|
Post by lureshy on Mar 5, 2012 14:12:13 GMT -6
thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 5, 2012 14:51:03 GMT -6
results in capture bias toward young bold animals, and an increase in survival of animals
that are not susceptible to capture. Thus, neophobic individuals increase in areas with
intensive coyote removal and management because coyotes that survive to become
breeding coyotes are those that are less susceptible to management methods. Field studies
of coyote behavior, as well as that of other species, under different human-induced
selective pressures would be useful for a better understanding of the interplay between
dominance, neophobia, and survival.
|
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 5, 2012 15:06:57 GMT -6
129 views, and a half doz replies. I'm disappointed in you- The coyote polls showed a lot of you trap coyotes- have you no opinions? These discussions, cannot help you become a better coyote trapper- and if you trap coyotes, isn't that the ultimate goal? So instead on standing on the sidelines reading - GET INVOLVED we bemoan the lack of good coyote discussions on the Internet- here is your chance. I'm calling all of you out.........................  If you are reading these threads and you aren't thinking, you are missing the boat! Hey- a certian someone promised not to bust anyone's balls (his interpretation on Mr Rodgers.....)- except me of course- lets make these threads improve ALL of us as coyote trappers. |
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 5, 2012 15:13:56 GMT -6
results in capture bias toward young bold animals, and an increase in survival of animals
that are not susceptible to capture. Thus, neophobic individuals increase in areas with
intensive coyote removal and management because coyotes that survive to become
breeding coyotes are those that are less susceptible to management methods. Field studies
of coyote behavior, as well as that of other species, under different human-induced
selective pressures would be useful for a better understanding of the interplay between
dominance, neophobia, and survival. I had a heck of a time with those several paragraphs, almost to the point of flow charting them so I could see who was on first and who was on third!!  |
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 5, 2012 15:16:18 GMT -6
I don't know- third base!
|
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 5, 2012 16:03:09 GMT -6
I don't know- third base! . Hell, I couldn't see 2nd because of the catcher! |
|
|
|
Post by lureshy on Mar 5, 2012 17:02:33 GMT -6
Alot to digest Still trying to figure out how to start.....maybe get the strengths and weakness out of the way on how it may apply to trappping.Fladry seems alot different than say a fresh dirthole.How would the subord. react if the dominants were'nt there, But I guess "breeding pairs is in the title,so the coor of it might help in trying to catch late season doubles somehow.Alot of interesting things in there someone could go off on.Still thinking (I just might hurt myself)
|
|
|
|
Post by mudflap on Mar 5, 2012 23:29:09 GMT -6
TMan, your right - a limited number carry the water here, and I am one who sits quietly on the sidelines. Following the read posted above - one's first reaction may be to think that breeding coyotes (though these above were pen born/raised) would react opposite to the paper's conclusions. As most any breeding coyote has survived a year or two of traps, snares, calling/shooting, etc. Therefore, since I believe that coyotes learn levels of avoidance thru experience and association, I might think these older coyotes would be the most likely to shy from new stimuli, such as fladry, etc. Aerial hunting coyotes immediately reveals just how quickly they learn. Often only one or two passes with the Supercub and a coyote has without doubt learned that he cannot outrun an airplane. Therefore on the next pass(es), he either runs at an obliques, under the airplane, or takes cover. The sharpest of the lot, simply learn to hide, because if they run, they die. Our ground crew folks have watched coyotes hide in a bush or break into an outright run, as soon as they hear the airplane approaching (sometimes as far as two plus miles away). The above responses do not always occur, but do enough that one really respects a coyotes ability to learn. Sooo, it does make sense that older coyotes should be the most educated within their territory and develop a (survival) knowledge base of what to fear or otherwise. I would be spooked at most everything (basically terrified) if I visited Harlem at night, but to those that are "streetwise", its just another great night out on the town. I know that coyotes are more difficult to trap in a sheep pasture where they are killing. I believe they somehow know they are up to "mischief" and if caught in the act - the consequences would not be rewarding. Therefore, they are in at night or first thing at dawn for their "mischief" and long-gone, as a general rule during normal daylight hours. I think they just do not spend much extra time when in that sheep pasture investigating odd things, such as a trap, etc. when their objective is a fat lamb, etc. Always best to trap them where they are living and most relaxed, etc. I relate this to a thief in your home, most of em probably make quick work and out the door, but once in a while some crazy sob, will take the time to make a ham sandwich before he departs. Lots of ways to kill a coyote, but coyotes will always make us scratch our heads.
|
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 6, 2012 7:32:42 GMT -6
TMan, your right - a limited number carry the water here, and I am one who sits quietly on the sidelines. Following the read posted above - one's first reaction may be to think that breeding coyotes (though these above were pen born/raised) would react opposite to the paper's conclusions. As most any breeding coyote has survived a year or two of traps, snares, calling/shooting, etc. Therefore, since I believe that coyotes learn levels of avoidance thru experience and association, I might think these older coyotes would be the most likely to shy from new stimuli, such as fladry, etc. Aerial hunting coyotes immediately reveals just how quickly they learn. Often only one or two passes with the Supercub and a coyote has without doubt learned that he cannot outrun an airplane. Therefore on the next pass(es), he either runs at an obliques, under the airplane, or takes cover. The sharpest of the lot, simply learn to hide, because if they run, they die. Our ground crew folks have watched coyotes hide in a bush or break into an outright run, as soon as they hear the airplane approaching (sometimes as far as two plus miles away). The above responses do not always occur, but do enough that one really respects a coyotes ability to learn. Sooo, it does make sense that older coyotes should be the most educated within their territory and develop a (survival) knowledge base of what to fear or otherwise. I would be spooked at most everything (basically terrified) if I visited Harlem at night, but to those that are "streetwise", its just another great night out on the town. I know that coyotes are more difficult to trap in a sheep pasture where they are killing. I believe they somehow know they are up to "mischief" and if caught in the act - the consequences would not be rewarding. Therefore, they are in at night or first thing at dawn for their "mischief" and long-gone, as a general rule during normal daylight hours. I think they just do not spend much extra time when in that sheep pasture investigating odd things, such as a trap, etc. when their objective is a fat lamb, etc. Always best to trap them where they are living and most relaxed, etc. I relate this to a thief in your home, most of em probably make quick work and out the door, but once in a while some crazy sob, will take the time to make a ham sandwich before he departs. Lots of ways to kill a coyote, but coyotes will always make us scratch our heads. One study referenced another study that proved coyote can have a neophobic retention to noxious stimuli for 3-9 months. |
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 6, 2012 8:45:04 GMT -6
thanks for jumping in mudflap-
How much is learned behavior, and how much is eliminating those that naturally run etc from the population.
I know for a fact that coyotes can be re caught- once I recaptured one 50 feet from the capture point 1 week later- that was a surprise, but I've caught 5-6 other collared coyotes, the following year or months later.
let me put out this scenario-
you have traps set, and take a good amount of coyotes first week, then nothing but you leave them there, see tracks occasionally, catch another coyote in 4-5 days, same thing occurs, you catch another, etc.
in a general way- do you think you caught the coyotes you missed first week, or catching transients coming through?
|
|
|
|
Post by seldom on Mar 6, 2012 9:27:41 GMT -6
thanks for jumping in mudflap- How much is learned behavior, and how much is eliminating those that naturally run etc from the population. I know for a fact that coyotes can be re caught- once I recaptured one 50 feet from the capture point 1 week later- that was a surprise, but I've caught 5-6 other collared coyotes, the following year or months later. let me put out this scenario- you have traps set, and take a good amount of coyotes first week, then nothing but you leave them there, see tracks occasionally, catch another coyote in 4-5 days, same thing occurs, you catch another, etc. in a general way- do you think you caught the coyotes you missed first week, or catching transients coming through? Both for me. That scenario is similar to what I do on some properties every year with a 3-6 week layover. For me, part of tne scenario depends on how long I was on the property initially, as last year with my injury just a few days into the season than a 2+ week layover. My previous reply to Mudflap involved "noxious" stimuli such as his example of hunting from the plane. In your scenario, if you'd added that a coyote had been pinched, the answer would have had an added dimension. Of course, we never know who is or could be trapping on the next property over and pinching(noxious stimuli)the daylights out of the same animals! I personally have had this occurrence more than a few times. |
|
|
|
Post by mudflap on Mar 6, 2012 10:57:55 GMT -6
Trappnman, good questions, as we all observe these types of scenarios each trapping season. You are correct about recapture. I would think all of us that have trapped for some time, have re-captured coyotes, ie. radio-collared, peglegs, etc. This demonstrates that coyotes are not super heros or fool-proof by any account. A coyotes daily life just places him in many vulnerable situations. I think that a coyotes probability to survive thru a trapping season would result from numerous factors. To name a a few: a natural born cautious instinct, learned association and behavior, processing and eliminating levels of stimuli (ie. avoidance vs attraction), levels of trapper experience, dumb luck, etc., etc. The list could go on and on, but bottomline - most coyotes along our trapline should end up on a stretcher. 2nd part of your question: I believe most coyotes can be trapped fairly quickly by a good hand within their territorries or if they are transients. However, most of us will also encounter a few that will leave those "disturbing" tracks which indicate he was there but for reasons unknown, did not work the set. In the old days, I would gas up my truck the night before, the next morning, I would slip in a clean floor-mat (reserved for coyotes), along with "reserved" clean LL Bean boots, and set with clean rubber gloves. All of these measures to catch first night coyotes, but mostly (in my weak mind) to have a fewer number of those coyotes that associate danger from too much human smell, etc., and would not work the set, potentially the next day, week, etc. These days, I am not so regimented as described above and still catch first night coyotes, etc. I think that if you have enough country and coyotes, there will surely be a few that show their presence and refuse to work the set. When you return next time and there he is; I think it is both - a transient or he/she finally committed. I believe this is true from catching coyotes during the denning season when they are most defensive of their territories, etc. Sorry about the long answer, but lots of related coyote/trapper behavior is difficult to say in a few paragraphs. Once one finds the keys to trapping, coyotes are easy, but a few coyote secrets will remain known only to coyotes. Fun to speculate!
|
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 6, 2012 18:28:50 GMT -6
good post! ;D Nothing I hate worse than tracks in the snow Esp where it's an area I "eliminated them in" |
|
|
|
Post by lureshy on Mar 6, 2012 20:18:54 GMT -6
Good stuff Mudflap. In the study,most coyotes entered the exp. area after the time was extended..........On my line last fall,my catch ratio was about the same on the fourth week as the first week.(same continual line ) Well....They aren't all transiants. In my opinion there were plenty of walk by's(no tracking snow) I also had a few documented after the snow.Maybe a connection.Anybody else see anything after the first snow?  ?? |
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 7, 2012 9:08:23 GMT -6
your catch rate on the same traps, was consistent each week, for 4 weeks?
thats rather unusual unless all your locations are at super draw areas- big stockyards, dead piles etc. and even then, that first week, if that many coyotes, should have been your best by far on a typical line.
Are you saying you got the same amount of coyotes on days 1-3 as days 25-28?
how many locations and traps were you running?
|
|
