otter eating muskrats

[jim]

How heavy do otter prey on muskrats, more in the winter when other prey are in lesser quanties?


Jim





(thread title edited for clarity- musher)

[mustelameister]

I ain't Musher, but the otter down here take a major toll on 'rats, especially once things ice up. With mild temperatures this winter there were more huts dug into from the side. Large holes in the side and tracks fully indicate otter predation.

[trappnman]

Mike and Jim-

I think it must matter quite a bit, in whether they have open water around. Here we have the marshes on the River, and lots of semi open feeder creeks/small rivers going into the River (Mississippi).

I found when doing the otter study, that tracks among the rat houses, were very sporadic, that almost to an otter they would concentrate up on the open water, and esp by any deep holes that had a good population of rough fish. Any ice tracks, on the marshes, were traveling tracks, not hunting tracks. We very seldom saw bones/fur in scat, instead seeing predominately rough fish sales, and crawfish parts.

Whether that means that trout were taken less, or that trout scales being softer didn't appear in scat as often, I don't know. Not saying in any manner otter don't or can't decimate trout populations, just saying rough fish SEEMED to be a preferred source rather that any sign we could see of trout.

And not sure if rats would show up in scat, but you would think, that if rats were a major part of their diet HERE, that evidence would be more prevalent.

My observations are Sept- October, Feb, and then April- early June. That Feb, was a very mild one, thus we could trap open water.

[thebeav2]

I would assume that once a otter started digging Into a rat hut the rats would all be gone before the otter accessed the inside of the hut. I know from talking to trappers who set Inside the hut that the rats are gone when they place their traps. I would assume that the percentage of rats being caught In the hut would be very small.
Now If that otter penetrated the hut and used It as a ambush point waiting for the rats to come back then that would be a different story.

[musher]

I'm with Steve. Otter eat fish and they eat lots of fish. But there always seem to be more scale fish fish than trout. But maybe the scales don't digest like trout?

'rats are rare in my part of the world. Every beaver hut has a couple but that is it. I've seen maybe a half dozen rat huts. Otter always visit an old hut and I think that they have rats on the brain when they do.

What always gets me at this time of year is the way otter take off cross country through the snow. They can be a fair distance from frozen water. They cross some pretty steep stuff in doing so. I've never seen where they caught any food and they always seem to be going fairly straight in open areas.

-30 this morning. Hoping that it warms a little before heading back out.

[trappnman]

What always gets me at this time of year is the way otter take off cross country through the snow. They can be a fair distance from frozen water. They cross some pretty steep stuff in doing so. I've never seen where they caught any food and they always seem to be going fairly straight in open areas.


noticed the same myself.

one thing I noticed, is that if on bare ground otter are going crosscountry following depressions and trails through marshes, that when snow covers up those trails/depressions, that the otter still are following them, by habit I guess since the trails are deep under snow.

[trappnman]

one other interesting thing, was that female otter having litters, either denned deep into a marsh- or just as often, way up in the hills.

[musher]

Here the otter literally cross mountains from one drainage to another. They go up hill and then back down. It's as if they are taking a shortcut. Once down they find a way under the ice by a river or beaver dam.

I keep expecting to find where they caught a hare or something!

[blackhammer]

Feb 13, 2012 9:12:28 GMT -6 trappnman said:

one other interesting thing, was that female otter having litters, either denned deep into a marsh- or just as often, way up in the hills.

It's interesting such an animal made for water is up in the hills.I have seen one at the top of a big bluff and have heard of several sightings a
long ways from water.We don't have a great population here but one would think the way they travel over trapping will never be a problem with are four otter limit.I bet they could be much harder on rats in small feeder type streams than on a marsh.

[mtcbrlatrap]

I caught two in MTC CO three years ago on my muskrat marsh. Released both!!! Nothing in this marsh but bullheads if that. they do rotate from this large marsh and two other sloughs and a persons 4 acres manmade lake filled with fish. Or was. There were 3 over there this winter. I did not have a tag so others were contacted.
I have caught them on our small streams here too another 3 over the last 8 years. I don't know how much eating of rats they might do but killing them is fun I am sure. Otters could actually swim right into some houses and not have to even dig them out.

Bryce

[thorsmightyhammer]

3 years running I have caught otter inside the rat hut.

The otter didnt burrow in from the outside they came in from the inside.

I dont know if they eat them or not but otter kill a pile of rats.

[trappnman]

do you notice the same steven, with open water around? or just when its all froze up?

I should also state, we have a very small otter population here, so less competion for winter food. I saw otter sign once all season.

[thorsmightyhammer]

If you get where there are otter many to a lot of the rats huts have otter toilet on them.

I am sure the otter are killing rats in the open water as well.

I really dont know if they eat them or not. But I do know when I get into a spot the otter are hanging out at the rat catch is down.

If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, I hate otter. Hate em.

[blackhammer]

The question is Steve,would you hate them if there was no limit and they averaged 200 bucks?

[Rally Hess]

I had an adult male otter eat five rats this fall. I hadn't planned on taking any otter until late November, but he had to go. I found a "nest" he was sleeping in and snared him the following day.
I've also seen where otter came from the inside of a muskrat house and bored their way out the side to get up on the ice in large flowages during the winter months.
Several years ago, I pulled up to a rat house in the canoe and there was a five pound northern laying on the top of the house with one bite out of the back. I had three traps on the house and the otter had traded me two rats for the northern, so I took it home and skun it!! Good trade.

[jim]

As you know I don't have many rats or never tried to catch them before this year. About a month ago I was on a beaver dam with a lot of cattails in it maybe twenty acres of water. The ice was very iffy, I had taken four 1 1/2s in there and found a couple houses and set them went back two days later with more traps but only set one because I didn't have even one sprung trap. The coyotes had made a lot of tracks around the houses like they knew there was some in them. Three days later after a six inch snow when back to pull the traps and had two rats but ice real scary now with the snow on it. Had some thaws some colder weather went back, found a couple bigger houses set ten traps when back three days later not a sprung trap. Coyotes on the ice but not around any of the houses, otter track also but he hadn't made a hole in any of the houses. I don't think there is much in the pond for fish no frogs in the winter so maybe they don't like rats that much but work on them in the winter.

I set eight 330s today, never set thru the ice before but have caught over 200 beaver one season. All put up and sent to auction also Steve.

Jim

[thorsmightyhammer]

Feb 13, 2012 14:40:21 GMT -6 blackhammer said:

The question is Steve,would you hate them if there was no limit and they averaged 200 bucks?

Not quite as much. Wouldnt even have to be worth 200 bucks, just up the limit. Cant hardly set a trap on purpose for one.

Rally, two years ago I had a big otter, I'm assuming it was a male becase it was alone take about a half dozen rats on me in a small pond.

I seen the baastard once or twice and he was lucky I was too lazy to dig out some bigger steal.

It looked like this one was coming from inside the house and boring out my access hole it looked like to me.

Yeah paul, I still would hate them. They kill alot of rats, mink, ducks fish etc.

[motrapperjohn]

They will also kill every mink they come across. Noticed a lot of mink tracks down south this year while trapping a very few otter this year. been 4 years since last time and caught a lot of otter but only 2 mink in 7 years and usually 30 to 40 otter per year. this year only 10 otter with almost no sign compared to years past.

[thebeav2]

I can't ever remember seeing fur In otter scat. But then most of my otter trapping was done in non rat country

[trappnman]

we never saw any in all the scat we looked at either beav-

and our otter, here, are in the best rat/mink areas, so plenty of opportunity.

not saying it doesn't happen, but one reason mink/otter do coexist, is the difference in thier primary food. and again, they might well kill mink, etc- but are not eating them

www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/zielinski/psw_zielinski025.pdf