otter eating muskrats

[thebeav2]

I have seen rats where they have had their hide rolled back and the meat eaten but what ever did it didn't digest any fur or very little. could that have been a otter?

[trappnman]

that could be-

do you mean rolled back like raptors do, or different?

[thorsmightyhammer]

I know what you are talking about gary and I think that is mink.

Otter kill alot of mink as well.

The USFWS refuge I trap on never let us take otter because they killed mink. They wanted less mink to prey on the ducks until one day when one of the biologists seen an otter kill a mallard. Now we can take 2 otter off of there if a guy has a section

[thorsmightyhammer]

BTW paul, still hate otter and averaged a cool 125 on them at the auction.

[trappnman]

steven- I've never seen where a mink rolls back the fur when eating muskrat- if what you are talking about is where the pelt is "rolled back" but still attached to the head, shoulders- thats always raptors.

seldom- you might have some studies on this other than anecdotal?

I'm not saying otter don't kill every mink they see, but am saying, I've never seen any evidence of it, and if they do, they aren't eating them, thats evident in several otter scat studies I've seen

[trappnman]

heres a discussion on the subject from a England forum, on mink vs otter.

An interesting read- long, but interesting

www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/mammal-forums/79680-mink-vs-otter.html

[thorsmightyhammer]

Aint no raptor getting INSIDE the rat house.

But I mean more so like the hide is rolled back and skeleton is eaten as well .

I doubt if otter eat mink but they do kill them.

[trappnman]

steven- I don't doubt for a minute you are seeing what you are or that you conclude its mink.

I'm just saying that I've never seen a mink eaten rat, that comes close to that description. Every rat I've had eaten by a mink, is basically just chomping a hole in the fur, and expanding that hole as they go- and their scat shows they eat a lot of hair with the meat.

I've never seen that roll back look, except by raptors, but agree, they ain't in the houses

any other possibilites that come to mind? I know some say turtles aren't active in cold water and cold weather- but at times they are Cause I've seen and caught thme myself.

could it be otter? I don;t know how an otter would eat a rat, but I could see where they are a bigger more powerful anmal and that roll back effect would be more possible than I'd think, a mink.

the rollback comes from grabbing the fur and pulling it against the carcass.

[thorsmightyhammer]

I had several of the roll backs this winter where rat dug out and mr. bobcat came along and ate them like that. Couple coyotes too. Like you say tracks in snow dont lie

Man, if I had all the rats I had ate this year it would have paid for my auction trip and I could have brought mama with

[robertw]

Anyone that has spent much time around otter can explain to you that an otter is a killing machine that often hunts and kills more for the sport of it than to eat. I have found over 30 channel catfish killed in one night by otter and none of them had been feed on.

Otter and mink just do not co-exist, the otter systematically hunt them down and kill them.

I have watched otter hunt and kill mice in grass just like any other predator.

[northof50]

back when they were 200..I was after two that co-lived in a beaver lodge...then one spring morning they came out and hunted air breathing holes of rats on the spring ice, two inches of fresh snow telled the tale,,3 miles and 10 rats later..only the tails were left. Eventually the pack of coyotes caught up with them and both were killed and consumed.
No delicate rolling of the flesh etc....
Low beaver prices have helped the otter population come up in our area.

[bblwi]

With a wetter summer last year and the northern portion of WI getting some ground water recharge we will probably see the beaver population bump up a bit. With beaver prices now rising nicely and beaver the #2 food for northern WI wolves I am guessing harvest pressure will be up and that will mean more incidental otters will be caught as well.
Otter crossing a frozen beaver marsh or flowage are food for coyotes and wolves.

Bryce

[musher]

Are you sure about the food for coyote and wolf part?

Otter are often in family groups. To say that they are wicked is an understatement. I won't let my chessies in the water when they are around. On land they are very impressive as they stand upright and show you those teeth.

The otter here go for miles on the snow. I've never seen any sign of anything even sniffing at their tracks.

I can't see a coyote killing an otter. A couple of wolves maybe. But I would expect bleeding all around.

[robertw]

I would bet money on a mature male otter over any coyote I have ever caught.

[northof50]

Theses otter were caught out in the open marsh, with their beaver lodge 1/2 mile away, the sign was all over the snow.There was lots of twirrling that occured.
We had another incident when we shot a deer and left a gut pile, the following day, the timbers caught an otter and killed it at the pile...the skull is a museum specimen, with a few t-w punctures in it's skull.

[bblwi]

What percent of otter would be a mature male? So a 25 lbs. otter can hold off a coyote and probably does. Not many coyotes and wolves in the winter are traveling alone so I would think a pack of timbers averaging 70 lbs. would be formidable foes for an otter or two. a coyote pack could as well. An otter is strong and has a body that makes it difficult to pin down but against an animal with a 600-900 lbs. crushing ability with their jaws I am thinking that they will meet a significant challenge.

Bryce

[robertw]

Lots of difference between wolves and coyotes and the end results.

[bblwi]

Sure would be in my opinon. If I were a foolish 40 lbs. male coyote and I had my choice to take on a 25 # male otter or a 25 male coon I would take the otter if I wanted more parts left after the engagement.

Bryce