small traps on the water line

[mustelameister]

Disclaimer: Attempting to duplicate any of the sets described herein may cause you to rethink using large traps for 'coon, mink and 'rats.

Factoids:

1) In this area . . . a drowned 'rat in 5" of water will not be in one piece or probably even there two or three days later if caught the first night.

Rationale: There are a host of predators, in this area, that are just waiting to snack on your catch, muskrats especially. I've got to get my 'rats underwater down here, on the bottom, away from the eyes of mink, otter, owls, hawks, eagles, 'coon, and probably coyote. A pocket or pipe set for me is a set for 'coon, mink and 'rats. I want any of those 3 critters to be down on the bottom and out of sight.

2) One does not need a large or heavy trap to drown a critter if the trap is hooked up to an efficient drowner system.

3) A smaller trap is more likely to slide down a drowner system than is a larger, heavier trap.

Rationale: A smaller trap can be moved easier by a caught critter than if it was caught in a larger, heavier trap, in most situations. Of course the ideal situation is a dropoff adjacent to the trap where the critter simply struggles and drops "over the cliff".

But what if that set has a couple feet of shallow water before entering deeper water? There's my problem.

Let's take a look at a pic that I posted earlier. Here's a typical pocket set for me. Small diameter pocket, bait speared in the back, chimney hole made with rerod stake maybe 10" back with shellfish/salmon oil squirted down into it, and #11 DJ directly in front with dogged jaw facing in. Loose jaw is guarded with pencil-diameter stick on the outside unless extremely cold conditions are coming then removed because of ice buildup. Standard set for me. The pan becomes the stepping stone for a 'coon. Mink and 'rats simply funnel over the trap.



Checked the set this afternoon and the trap is gone. Notice the guard stick for the loose jaw is still there. The set itself is undisturbed. That's part of the beauty of a drowning set.



February 7th 'coon in a #11 DJ. Note the nice pad catch. Note it's locked onto the front left foot. I believe most 'coon work a stream of this nature wading upstream. Approaching the small pocket, they'll plant their front left foot (on this bank) directly in front to reach or step in with their right front foot. Same for a PVC pipe that is horizontal and just above the water's surface. Small target area allows for small trap. Easily carried away.



I ran drowner rods on the Baraboo River for several years and grew to appreciate them. Deep water was almost always adjacent to the trap and any trap worked just fine. Well, they don't work all that well in this sandy river and adjacent creeks and marshes. I tried to incorporate them last year, but went to the vertical 5' rerod post on the terminal end with the cable and that's what's working for me. Try sticking your 18" T-bar into sand and see where that gets you when it comes time to check.

The GAC can be used in any length. Pockets, pails or packbaskets with different lengths coiled up are easy to utilize at the set location. That's what works for me now and I don't see myself going back to rods.

Now I will admit the #11 can be trying for 'rats to carry away in shallow water for a ways before drowning. So I'm switching from longsprings to coilsprings next year in sets where I'm fairly certain the target critter is the muskrat or mink. If a 'coon does get into the set, that's fine, but this is where I'm thinking 'rat.

A comparison of a #11 to a #1 coilspring:



So this winter I ordered up all the #1 coilsprings I could find offered and made my own comparisons:



First one I ruled out right away was the Bridger in the lower left-hand corner. Spring levers are way too short on top. A real pain, for me anyway, when trying to set. Springs seemed a little weak compared to the others, IMO.

Next ruled out was the Sleepy Creek, upper left-hand corner. I don't care for the dog/pan system and they're pricey.

That leaves the Victor and the Duke. Very comparable traps. Spring strength goes to Duke, IMO, in fact, if you count coils looks to me like the Duke has one more coil. The dog is wider on the Duke, though I'm not sure that makes much difference. When it comes down to buying these traps, one can buy more Dukes than Victors, so . . . .

The Duke #1 coilspring will be my pipe and pocket trap for next season when I'm fairly certain 'rats are probable catches. If I'm fairly certain it's just 'coon that will be checking these sets out I'll be going with the #11. I do go with the spendier Newhouse #11 DJ over the Duke.

Now back to rods vs cable for a moment.

How would I hook that DP on the left up to a rod? That's one sweet 'coon trail coming down behind that tree and I want that DP right in its face. Cable works just fine here.



I shared the terminal vertical 5-foot rerod system 'cause it solved a lot problems for me and is easy to apply especially out of a boat. Thought maybe a few fellas might find it applicable on their waterline. It isn't a drowning rod and maybe it was the wrong thread to post it on.

Small traps do indeed have smaller catch areas. But if you know where that foot is going to land, you can almost guarantee yourself a catch if you know what you're doing.

And that's all. I'm going to give these #1 coilsprings a whiz next season and maybe I'll sell 'em all a year from now. We'll see. Anyway, for what it's worth.

[trappnman]

good thread MM-

I have some disagreement with some of your premises, but don't have the time now to really get in a discussion on it, so will get back to you later

[thebeav2]

You are making trapping way to complected. This Isn't rocket science.

My problem with SMALL traps Is that they tend to be ONE DIMENSIONAL. I don't want to be trap POOR I want a trap that functions In many different situations and will take a majority of animals I target.

I own NO #1 sized traps and for good reason. What's the weight difference between a # 1 and a 1 1/2 coil ?

I caught well over a 1000 rats this season and I had ONE wring off and I use 1.75 sized traps. I rest my case.

[longrangekilla]

Nice post Mike. Good info.

[trappnman]

I can see your reasoning about not moving a larger trap in shallow water- and thinking of the zero problems I have in that area, and thinking of mink/rats in coon sets on slides-

the difference is my traps are wired to a deep water stake- yours are on cables.

my mink rats on coon cables, seldom take the trap away much at all- the vast majority in mink rat sets, with the end of chain wired to deep water cable- the trap- in a lot of cases $2 dls- is taken to deep water 100% of the time.

Something about working the lock so its not sliding enough.

I just don't like #1s as a water, I'm convinced that the light weight, gives you looses WHEN USED STAKED AS I DO- I could see, on a slide, that might not be true.

good luck with those #1 coils- to me, they are the most worthless trap in the water trappers arsenal. I found (and jumps are even worse in small sizes) that they give me for more snapped empty traps that 1.5s and even #1- which actually are a good, insofar as catch rates, rat trap but lack weight.

I used them for a few years and it didn't take too long to not even take them out of the totes in the fall.

As an FYI- i use a lot of #1 ls on gophers- and have a bunch of #1 coils- even in gophers, they are the last I use, because, they consistently give me more misses than the long springs.

I think, IMO, that the design, makes them an inherently unstable trap, and animals like mink and rats tip them climbing into them, and coon do the same when stepping on the levers or jaws. IMO once again, I think the reason you have the success you do with the #11, is that the #11 is a very stable trap.

my guess, is you will have less fur, in those traps than you are doing with the 11s.

but I've been wrong before...

odd the stick is there yet- that's usually the first clue the stick is gone.

[CoonDuke]

I would like to see a close up shot of that Duke #1 in the set position. The problem with a lot of #1 coils is that the pan tension is a bit much but it looks in the pic like Duke might have changed something to help with that...

[mustelameister]

CD, good eye. Actually, before taking that picture I bent the vertical part of the cross frame towards the jaw and cut the dog down to do just that--reduce pan tension.

Here they are set: Victor in the upper left, the modified Duke #1 in the center, and an unmodified Duke #1 on the right.



Different angle of these two Duke #1s:

[lumberjack]

That rudimentary double jaw cant really help any, can it?

[foxman]

There so little!!!

[mustelameister]

I concur about the double jaw. Received a box of those by mistake instead of the regular jaws. Looks to me like more decoration than anything else.

[foxman]

By the way, informative post and a learning experiance. I enjoyed the read. I use 1 1/2s and honestly when i take a break from land trapping i even use my 2s and 3s on the water. Im not picky, caught is caught..and they all are DOA when i get there, sittin on the bottom.

[thebeav2]

Let us know how those little traps work out for you.

[mustelameister]

Yea, we'll see. I understand about larger, heavier traps taking critters to the bottom faster. But the locations I'm talking about aren't going to allow your muskrat or mink to take that trap to the bottom.

I've purposely avoided setting these locations just for that reason. Here are a couple of examples. In this first pic there are two DPs S-linked to drowner cables over a sand flat then into three feet of water for drowning. The 'coon easily take the DP over this stretch of shallow water and into the deep and drown.

That muddy strip underneath the grass is loaded with muskrat tracks. I avoid setting it because the 'rat would never get into that deep water with even a #11 or #1 1/2 on it, much less yours 2s and 3s. The predators down here are unbelievable. You cannot leave an exposed 'rat in this area.



So the question becomes this: If I set a #1 coilspring on either side of these DPs, could a trapped muskrat/mink make it to deep water? If not, then I'm wasting my time even considering it.

If you're telling me you can set 2s and 3s in this situation and the trapped muskrats can make it to the deep water in the foreground, I think you're full of baloney.

Another similar location. Vertical bank on the right with very shallow sand flat. Some 'rat sign. As the vertical bank peters out below the tree the opportunity diminishes for a good 'rat set, IMO.



I'd love to punch a horizontal hole, say 2" in diameter just above the waterline on the far right, and snug a #1 coilspring in front of it. 'Coon, mink or 'rat would all make it across that shallow sand flat and into drowning water.

A third location. Reed canary grass on vertical three to four-foot bank. River pops up and down, sometimes sandbar created by current is submerged, sometimes looks like this. Good spot for DPs but also good spot for 'rats.



Now closer to the far right side, and you can see the tracks of 'rats and 'coon working their way under the grassy roof in the mud. Would be nice to scoop some of that sand/mud out under the grass, set a small trap, and if a 'rat is caught have it be able to drag to the deeper water some ten feet away or so. Maybe that's just not do-able.



That's what I'm doing here. Bouncing some ideas. I get the bigger trap idea. I really do understand that. No problem, makes sense, I've used #3s in situations before where there's deep water adjacent to the set.

I'm talking about the critter being able to take that trap across the shallow into deeper water. If the #1 coilspring is still too big a trap for muskrats to do that, then end of discussion and I'll continue to avoid setting these situations.

[foxman]

Im lucky enough to trap along the blue river, which in most places has steep banks and good drowning water. Yes there are some shallow spots but they are easily avoided. The current moves quick and in my mind it pulls the muskrats to the bottom. I will have to take some video or photos. When i first start trapping this area..years back it was my first attempt at trapping in the water. I made the mistake of setting in some shallow spots and had a few rats missing there whole back. That was using old newhouse #11s. My go to trap on the water, duke 1.5.. Like i said, im lucky enough to have some killer spots with 2-3 feet of water right next to the set. I unlike you, do not have the time or patience to make these sets. Seem to long drawn out and complicated. Im by no means bashing them, just simply saying they arent for me.

[mustelameister]

Feb 11, 2012 11:09:41 GMT -6 foxman said:

I unlike you, do not have the time or patience to make these sets.

And that's my problem. Seriously. I'm never 100% satisfied with my current technique. Maybe now that I've got more time on my hands I can justify fartin' around with stuff like this. I've always had the patience.

Maybe after a season of dinkin' around with these #1 coils and I'll be back to selecting set sites that have drowning depth immediately nearby. Anyway, it's February and I've got just a few traps out and it's too early to think about the walleyes yet, so I'm mentally tinkering here.

[foxman]

LOL! I seem to always be busy busy busy.. i use alot of beaver chewed sticks with wire and trap already connected. I just unroll the set up, set the trap, plung in both sticks, one in the bank one in the deep water. dig pocket bait it and go! takes me about 2 minutes.

[mustelameister]

Okay, one more location, then I've got 'rats to put up yet this afternoon.

Here's a location that offers a couple of set sites in just a short distance. I can moor the boat and wade in hip boots just up to that clump of mud sticking out. The sweet spot lies between the junction of the short grass here and that mud clump. Closer to the clump I've got good drowning water. But I'd like to be able to put in at least 4 or 5 sets here. That's a target number for anytime I'm going to shut the motor down, moor the boat, and get out to work sets.



Looking downstream and you can see exposed mud on a gently sloping bank for quite aways. So the sweet spot is hidden behind the boat here up to that mud clump.



Mud clump with work tray.



Smorgy DP ready to go.



'Coon swaying in the current on drowner cable from clump.



There are a couple of sites for pockets just down from the clump. But I'd like to get in at least three, maybe four. This is where I'd like to insert a couple of #1 coils as it gets shallower.

For what it's worth. Susan says it's time to get something done today. Later.

[trappnman]

b]If you're telling me you can set 2s and 3s in this situation and the trapped muskrats can make it to the deep water in the foreground, I think you're full of baloney.
[/b]

I can tell you they take a 1.5 coil or a #2 double longspring easily to that deeper water w/o exception IF no vegetation as pictured.

and that no bologna

but, again, I'm not talking cables, which do, to a degree, bind up with smaller animals and heavier traps- but on a #14 wire with 3-4 feet of chain at trap. I have no doubt, that allowing circular and radial movement of the trapped animal, is what allows this.

but lets back up a minute- do you think a 1.5 COIL is too heavy?

Am I correct in thinking that?

if not- then why on earth dick around with the #1?

[thebeav2]

If your counting on a rat or a mink dragging a trap of any size more then a few feet I don't think It's going to happen.
If predation Is that big of a factor then your better off searching out locations adjacent to deep water.

[trappnman]

how about we define "traps of any size" so I know what you are talking about - 3s on up, agree- 2s and below- just don't see it