small traps on the water line

[longrangekilla]

Mike-
Just my experience with those duke number ones-
My kids won a couple as raffle prizes and I let them use them against my better judgement. I had a hell of a time keeping the pan from tightening up due to being in the water for any length of time. Also, I didn't like the way the pan sat so much higher than the jaws.

[thebeav2]

Ok guys I laid awake all night trying solve Mikes shallow water problem. These systems will also allow him to use the smaller traps.

I came up with several systems that would work.

#1
a drowning system that uses a retractable dog leash. Just stake the hand held part in deep water and pull the leash part out to the bank. The trap would of course be attached to the leash end. Now the trap chain would be attached to the bank end of the triggering devise.
When the animal Is caught It's struggles will allow the leash part to break away from the triggering device. Then the retractable leash spring would be activated and drag the critter Into deep water.

#2 similar to #1
Go to any junk yard and acquirer the pull start devices off of any lawn mower or any other pull start machine. You would probably want to replace the cord with cable. But as you can see as you pulled the starting cord you would be winding the spring. Thus when this was released the critter would be pulled to deep water.

#3

The bungee cord drowning device.

You will have to find some high tech bungee cord for this system. Now picture a sling shot In your mind. You would have two stakes driven In the deep water about 6' apart. You would have Two double loops of bungee cord. Between the two loops you would have a short section of chain or cable. This Is being used to prevent the trapped animal from chewing up the bungee cord before It expires. Now you would place the two bungee cord loops over each deep water stake. With the trap chain attached to the center chain you would stretch the cord to the trap location.There It would be attached to the triggering device. The lengths of cords and distances would have to be worked out for maximum efficiency but It could be done.The elasticity In the cord would prevent any problems with critters being thrown out of the trap.

#4
The beavs ultimate catapult drowning system.

First we need a section of coil spring or maybe one of those spring loaded hay rake tines. On one end of the spring we would attache a 3' long 5/16ths rod. On the terminal end we would have have a device where our trap chain could be attached. The other end of the spring would be attached to a piece of flat stock. This flat stock would be drilled so It could be attached with a bolt to our deep water angle iron stake. This plate would have to be double nutted so It could pivot on the stake. On the bank side of your stake you will have to weld on a spring stop. This would allow you to rotate the spring arm down to the water thus compressing the spring. It Is very important that this spring stop be welded to the stake so that when the arm It's self Is in the vertical position It will be just a Inch or so off center. This will allow the arm when It's at It's zenith to rotate down to the deep water side of the system.
At the bank you will have your triggering device. This will consist of a angle iron stake with a smooth piece of rod bolted thru the stake. This rod will be able to be rotated and will have a 90 degree bend at the trap side. Thus when rotated down It will be In the safety mode. when rotated 90 degrees up It will be In the triggering mode. This system could Bitch slap the hell out of you If your not careful.
Just think 2' of rod 3 feet of chain and your 5' from the bank with your stake. When the device Is sprung your 10 feet from the bank and In deep water with your quarry.
Just think how this could make It legal for extended checks on dry land body grips along streams. Same with dry land dog proofs. A stouter spring would probably have to be used when having to deal with coon.

And If I see any of these systems being used on WI trap lines with out written consent from the Inventor your all going to facing me In court.

[mustelameister]

YES!!! The solutions I've been looking for!!! Beav, you the man!!!

[thebeav2]

I will send you a consent form this coming Monday

[mustelameister]

Gary showing the masses his first drowning rod . . .

[thebeav2]

you have to start some where Mike .

Lee your post has nothing to do with small traps On the line. Unless of coarse your advocating #1s for beaver and otter.

I'm taking the day off from the fur shed today.
Have 200 rats done and 400 left to go and 140 some coon to do and that's just what needs to be done by next Wednesday but that's with the help of Long range killer. I have to mention him a time or two or he gets all bent out of shape and starts to get moody. Oh well he's still young.

[RdFx]

WHoops back over to other dribble!

[thebeav2]

OK before this thread goes south lets look at drowning methods and trap sizes.

When I started out trapping I trapped rats and I staked out from the bank In to deep water. To accomplish this I either used wire or added longer chains to my traps. Sure I lost some critters to wring offs and predation but It was acceptable. We had very few coon In the day's of my youth.
As I got older I gained permission on some large rat marshes. I trapped the same way but I was getting more wring offs then I liked. My traps were #1 long springs and some #1 1/2 long springs.
One day as I was getting ready to launch my boat the old guy that use to trap the marsh showed up. I could tell he was really sad about not being able to trap the marsh. Old age had taken there toll. i told him that If he would like to run with me It would be a honer. I learned a lot that day.

His first advise was to take my long chains and tie a over hand knot In the chain and then run the forked willow stake through the knot and keep the chain up high on the stake. His reasoning was that knots In chain never stay tight and with the thrashing around of the rat the knot would come un done and the chain would fall Into the water and pull the rat away from the hut edge Into deeper water. It worked and I still use a version of that method today. I now use a vertical drowning rod.

The next advise he gave me was to target the front foot or feet of the rat. Of coarse I had to argue that the front foot was very fragile and a back foot or leg would be a better choice. He then explained why he felt that way. He said that If you caught a rat by the back foot and a normal rat being 14 or 16" long could and would use It's front feet to drag It's self back out of the deeper water and back up onto the hut. While a front foot catch would take a rat head first under water. with less of a chance to get back to the hut. He also advocated a #2 sized trap reason being a heavy trap holds down the rat and you have a better chance to catch the rat by both front feet or for that matter catch It by three legs. This assures you that a rat with It's nose under water and not being able to move much will drown or at least die of stress with very few If any wring offs. He also said that a rat caught by the front feet was less likely to dig up all kinds of debris that would cause the trapped rat to get tangled In that debris and not get Into deep water to drown.

If I had Mikes shallow water situations and from the pictures It looks like there may be as much as 4 or 5 ' feet of shallow water before you get to DEEP water and I doubt that a rat or mink would drag a trap that far.

I wouldn't hesitate to set large traps staked short and let the rats either die from drowning or stress or let them crawl up under those weed chocked banks and hide them selves. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

On to drowning rods wire or cable.

All three have one huge problem and That Is they all collect floating and submerged debris. Not so bad In non moving water but In moving water It doesn't take long to render a slide system useless. Same with long chains staked deep. Lots of derbies will accumulate on the chains and actually pull the trap out of the trap bed. This doesn't happen a lot but It does happen. I have had derbies build up so bad on extended checks that the stakes were pulled out of the bottom with all the build up. To remedy this situation I placed my stakes In the horizontal position In the bank and let them hang out over the water. There was either a fork at the end or I drove a nail In the end of the stake. I also had a nail driven In at a angle out towards the end of the stake this allowed the trap ring to slid over the nail but wouldn't allow It to come back to the bank. With the trap placed up close to the bank out of the flow there was no build up. And with the stake In a slanting position down towards the water It acted just like a slide rod.

Well now we have some more Ideas to digest

Putting up fur Is a lot easier then all this typing.

[lumberjack]

Bow a springy green limb towards the bank and stop it with a stake. when the animal is caught and struggles, it sets of thus whipping said animal into deeper water.
Dont laugh, I remember seeing a springed contraption in the older catalogs that did just that.
Another idea would be those jack handles that fold in half- you pull them apart and slide the sleeve over the joint to hold it rigid. If I can only figure out a way to get the sleeve slid over the joint when needed Id be onto something.
Ok, Im done engineering.

[trappnman]

I know the above was tongue and cheek, but you actually CAN get a very servicable "slide pole" out of a willow. Trim off all branches except a couple of nubs on the bottom end, slip the ring over it (when this was used, rings were the norm) and stab the top end into the house angling the bottom end out and away. for rats and mink of course, not coon. I've done this in deep water on marshes, and the poles were prepared ahead of time.

[lumberjack]

I have done that and it works great-until a coon comes into the picture. Then if you are lucky, it MAY act as a drag.