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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 4, 2011 18:50:46 GMT -6
The FINAL WORD is; If you use a colony trap with any measurement greater than 6X6X36 you are in violation of state law and may be subject to enforcement action
If you drive 56 in a 55 speed zone one may be subject to enforcement.
i aint ever been pulled over for 60 let alone 56.
MN has a law where the snare cant be greater than 10 inches in diameter. Aint nobody ever going to get a ticket for 10.25 inches.
I suppose even a 5 inch trap would be in violation if it got bent out of shape enough.
Musher, I dont see your doors being a problem.
On a 7x7 trap I make my doors and 8 inches long. On an 12x8 I make them 14 inches long.
Musher, I see your welded wire is 19 gauge. I like 14 gauge although I believe that 16 would be ample.
I think a guy could get by with 1x2 in the 14 gauge as well.
Where I get my wire at Klubertanz its 28 dollars a roll cheaper for 1x2 vs 1x1 in the 14 ga.
I make my traps 30 inches long but I think i might make some new 8x12 24 inches long.
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 4, 2011 19:56:54 GMT -6
So you sold all your Illegal traps to some poor dork LOL I don't think the nonresident that purchased 'em was a dork, nor was he poor. |
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 4, 2011 20:04:34 GMT -6
The FINAL WORD is; If you use a colony trap with any measurement greater than 6X6X36 you are in violation of state law and may be subject to enforcement actionIf you drive 56 in a 55 speed zone one may be subject to enforcement. i aint ever been pulled over for 60 let alone 56. The warden attending our trapper ed class here last weekend produced a tape measure and measured up the 5x5 colony trap and then the 6x6 colony trap I had setting side by side. He then stated the 6x6 would be illegal since it measured outside six inches on a side. I too have never been pulled over for 60 in a 55. But when the warden of the county I trap in tells me to my face that the 6x6 colony trap I have in my hands will be illegal to use this fall, I tend to believe him and do otherwise. |
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Post by calvin on Sept 4, 2011 21:14:57 GMT -6
Wow...what a picky bugger. But maybe something you might not want to push since he/s YOUR warden. Guess he gave you warning. Sounds goofy but I/d pull em, too... Bummer.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 5, 2011 7:46:10 GMT -6
did you smush 5x5 out so that each side was bowed out and extra 9/16 on each side and see what his opinion would have been then?
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 5, 2011 8:45:50 GMT -6
Wow...what a picky bugger. But maybe something you might not want to push since he/s YOUR warden. He's only relating what he's received from the top in Madison. Inconsistent enforcement in the marsh by law enforcement will not bode well with the trapping community. Either all wardens let collapsible 6x6s slide or they all enforce a strict 6x6 opening. I'm sure we'll find out for sure next week at the fall rondy. You don't have to smush a 6x6 collapsible to make it go outside the 6" boundary on a side. If they wanted to be this picky and still allow the 6x6, the regs should have read no larger than 6 3/4" x 6 3/4" X 36". Smushing a 5x5 to prove a point wasn't, in my opinion, in the best interests of 37 students new to trapping. |
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Post by rk660 on Sept 5, 2011 10:21:46 GMT -6
Beav, If I had one and only one trap size to use, it would be a 10x6", out of my 12x8,11x7,10x6,9x5. the 9x5 would be a close 2nd.
if had to be square, it would be a 7x7.
Solids only for me, fold ups dont stand up to hard use near as well, take more material, and 3x longer to build. If you start big, like 12x8 and down 4 more sizes, or start at 9x9, and work down 4, youll soon see your arent saving a single square inch over fold-ups. Your also 5x better prepared for different sized culverts, stream depths, bank runs or hut runs, with multiple sizes also, and your setting time will be greatly enhanced over screwing around w/ foldups.
24" max, rest is wasted wire and wasted space. 24" stand up in boat or truck, and dont fall over like 30 or 36" ers also.
double doors are do more good in theory than in use. Shove 4-5 rats in one side of a 12x8, youll see enough door flex opening to still let rats in if door opens 4-5 yet. running my system of stacking multiple sizes in each other, the extra doors just make more grief shoving them back inside each other, more than an extra rat here/there is worth. your not gonna get bumper crops of 6-8 rats every day, so if ya miss a few, you pick them up the next day anyways. Userabiltiy of equipement, for me, outtshines a small % gain in catch rates over course of a long season. Those "rats than never end" spots are better covered with a select few funnel traps.
Lots of good info above, and lot of it was given to them by me in last years time also. been playing the colony trap game a LONG time.
There are a lot of little things about trap building that make them work better. I go into quite a few of them in the Ice Trapping DVD, and have a good section on building them in the DVD also.
Yipieee!!!!!!-just got my phuematic J banding gun in the mail! A lot of hand J banding tools gonna be on my convention tables, LOL.
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 5, 2011 13:25:50 GMT -6
I'm with you on the ridged versus the collapsible colony traps. I built a few collapsible ones and soon made them all Into ridged traps.
RK what's your opinion on building a few 10"X 30" round ones with cones for the entrance. Do you think you need to have doors on the cones?
For you that are wondering I'm not using them In WI
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Post by packerfan on Sept 5, 2011 14:07:52 GMT -6
Thanks for the info Mike. I agree Beav, the ridged seem nicer (to me). Plenty of room in the suburban. I'll hook up my trailer if I get that excited over these things.LOL.
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Post by calvin on Sept 5, 2011 19:58:28 GMT -6
Yes, Rich's vids expanded my use of colony traps (especially the oversized squat types) quite a bit. Opened my eyes to many new opportunities that I probably wouldn't have thought of on my own. His vids were invaluable to me, personally.
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Post by mattduncan on Sept 5, 2011 20:32:10 GMT -6
rich i have found the same on the door design the larger traps the doors flex and and the double door is not as big of deal but for guys on 6x6 i see a diffrence , from what i've seen its not the rat hanging on the door so much as when he bites on and then his back feet get caught on the bottom of the cage is what wedges the doors shut , my size prefference is much the same as rich's , but i favour 30 inch traps over 24 just my preferrence i guess , i hope to have some rats to catch this fall our weather here has not been very condusive to our rats , lack of water namely
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Post by northof50 on Sept 12, 2011 20:53:20 GMT -6
if you are working with ice conditions in the fall the 14 guage wire is much better.
Also check to see what type of galvanizine is done... the mink producers are getting away from the old zinc and alunium is used now.
Some of my subs are 30 years old with the old wire still holding up.... the new stuff gets 3-4 years.
then the welds go.
Bigger is better, so is longer, but you can fight only so many battles.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2011 7:04:52 GMT -6
TrapperRon mentioned on another colony trap thread, about suspending funnel traps under the ice, thinking the black funnel resembled holes to rats.
Was talking to MactheDiver at WI about it, and he said that was interesting. Mac does a lot of under ice diving, and he said that when under the ice, the entrance hole shows up from below, as nothing but a black circle in the ice- no sky, no nothing but black.
so he said in his opinion, Ron's theory had a good deal of merit behind it.
not legal in WI, but worth keeping in mind.
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 13, 2011 8:40:38 GMT -6
suspending funnel traps under the ice not legal in WI, but worth keeping in mind. Why not? So long as they don't exceed 6" in diameter they should be okay. From the regs: Overall length can not exceed 36 inches and height and width cannot exceed 6 inches. If using a round trap, the diameter cannot exceed 6 inches.I plan on making a few to suspend just to see. |
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 13, 2011 8:55:25 GMT -6
The FINAL WORD is; If you use a colony trap with any measurement greater than 6X6X36 you are in violation of state law and may be subject to enforcement actionIf you drive 56 in a 55 speed zone one may be subject to enforcement. i aint ever been pulled over for 60 let alone 56. The warden attending our trapper ed class here last weekend produced a tape measure and measured up the 5x5 colony trap and then the 6x6 colony trap I had setting side by side. He then stated the 6x6 would be illegal since it measured outside six inches on a side. I too have never been pulled over for 60 in a 55. But when the warden of the county I trap in tells me to my face that the 6x6 colony trap I have in my hands will be illegal to use this fall, I tend to believe him and do otherwise. ------------------------------ Followup to this discussion. And I'm still p.o.'d I thought I knew what the final word was, since I had it verified from near the top in law enforcement. But after talking to a few fellas after I rolled in Friday, I found I've been left holding the proverbial bag. Can't quote him exactly, but the jist is this: "It will be up to the discretion of the conservation warden to determine whether or not the colony trap was built in the spirit of the law. At this time, the warden may allow a 6x6 collapsible colony trap to be included as legal, however, if the warden finds any other violation, he/she can come back and ticket that colony trap." I haven't heard such bull#$%$ in a long time, and shared those thoughts after hearing that. Up to the discretion of the warden. Well, the warden in this area has already shared his discretion. A 6x6 collapsible will be illegal. Have tape measure will travel. Fricken' Paladin. I won't even get into sharing how I feel about selling my 6x6 collapsibles stock at cost and then buying 200 5x5 collapsibles for resell and personal use. So I wonder what discretion the warden in the next county will be using. And the warden above that county. This has turned out to be one of the biggest cluster#$%@ to come out of DNR. I have gone to great lengths to publicly support the DNR over the 25 years I've instructed trapper ed in this state. However, this little episode leaves a distinct bitter taste in my mouth for those in charge who feel their personal ambitions and vendettas supersede common sense and original intent.  |
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Post by kelly on Sept 13, 2011 15:04:47 GMT -6
The warden attending our trapper ed class here last weekend produced a tape measure and measured up the 5x5 colony trap and then the 6x6 colony trap I had setting side by side. He then stated the 6x6 would be illegal since it measured outside six inches on a side. I too have never been pulled over for 60 in a 55. But when the warden of the county I trap in tells me to my face that the 6x6 colony trap I have in my hands will be illegal to use this fall, I tend to believe him and do otherwise. ------------------------------ Followup to this discussion. And I'm still p.o.'d I thought I knew what the final word was, since I had it verified from near the top in law enforcement. But after talking to a few fellas after I rolled in Friday, I found I've been left holding the proverbial bag. Can't quote him exactly, but the jist is this: "It will be up to the discretion of the conservation warden to determine whether or not the colony trap was built in the spirit of the law. At this time, the warden may allow a 6x6 collapsible colony trap to be included as legal, however, if the warden finds any other violation, he/she can come back and ticket that colony trap." I haven't heard such bull#$%$ in a long time, and shared those thoughts after hearing that. Up to the discretion of the warden. Well, the warden in this area has already shared his discretion. A 6x6 collapsible will be illegal. Have tape measure will travel. Fricken' Paladin. I won't even get into sharing how I feel about selling my 6x6 collapsibles stock at cost and then buying 200 5x5 collapsibles for resell and personal use. So I wonder what discretion the warden in the next county will be using. And the warden above that county. This has turned out to be one of the biggest cluster#$%@ to come out of DNR. I have gone to great lengths to publicly support the DNR over the 25 years I've instructed trapper ed in this state. However, this little episode leaves a distinct bitter taste in my mouth for those in charge who feel their personal ambitions and vendettas supersede common sense and original intent. I hear you Mike and share your pain! Pretty much the same way I feel now after being told the the Trappers Education is a must for me to get a license since I'm now a NR. See I was born raised in WI, lived there and had trapping licenses tilll 1994-anyone who had a trapping license prior to 1992 was grandfathered in-but not for those like me becuase the powers to be figured becuase one is now a Non Resident you wouldn't be up on the new laws and ethics. Give me a break!  Was even told by the head guy that if I come back to the state and become a resident I would still have to take the course. Urggggggggh! So I'm taking the course. Wisconsin DNR has had a very long, standing tradition of creating stupid laws just to catch sportsman breaking them! Common sense has long ago went out the window! |
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Post by trappnman on Sept 14, 2011 8:10:21 GMT -6
mike- if you use funnel traps- according to what I've read here, then the funnel, cannot be more than 6" diameter. Is that correct?
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 14, 2011 9:15:18 GMT -6
who knows
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Post by rk660 on Sept 14, 2011 21:24:33 GMT -6
i would guess dont matter what funnel measures, but outside diameter of wire.
I do think you WI guys"asked too many questions" on this one. Should have left at 6 squares is a 6" trap. anything over would be too big. in the field thats about how it would be dealt with, dont have a trap over 6 squares wide or tall. too many detailed questions got too much scruteny and attention, and prollyl lost your 6 square (6" trap for all practical purposes) trap. wardens gonna count squares in field, not carry calipers or micrometers around. You might have spited your face, to save your nose Im afraid.
I can "crunch" a 6 1/8 trap, to 6 or under, in about 10 seconds if needed.
You'll need to go straight to your head of law enforcement division of DNR, and have someone explain, that 6" nominal sized wire, can run over or under, and hopefully convince them that 6 squares of 1 " square wire should be "real world standard", and let it trickle down to all wardens, to avoid overzealous enforcement of nitpicky wardens over some wire that runs 1/32" oversized. Always go to the top on deals like this, so you get a uniform interpititation, that trickles down to all wardens. Your letting middle management decide policy, and screw yourselves. Need to go straight to the top. Middle management always screws things up.
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Post by rk660 on Sept 14, 2011 21:52:44 GMT -6
Matt, I agree youll prolly gain a few here/there with double doors on smaller traps, although I doubt it will be huge degreee, unless your working with an overly above average numbers of rats across the board. I get 2's and 3's alot in 6 inchers. usually about what ya got to work with in one nights time on smaller runs. I would about bet, my time overall, would be better spent just building more traps, in time it took to double door them all. ie: rather have 100 to work with than 65. Deployment speed factors in also, not having to fool with inside doors to stack, and unstack, also counts when dealing in 100-300 traps.
Ive found funnels catch less in open than colonies. Funnels need blended in more to really tick usually. I hated white funnels, and pulled them and spray painted as I knew it was costing me rats. I saw enough refusals from unblocked and unblended funnels, that I doubt any "black hole effect" really gonna amount to a whole lot. One of them deals that might work here/there w/ a BIG number of rats going by every day.
Beleive it or not, Ive seen rats looking at their dead buddies in doors, and I mean stopped and moving their head back and forth looking it over. Saw it over a headlight more than once. Ive seen rats get used to a bunch of colonys, and zoom right past them like nothing, thru 3" of sides, when 2 ft was covered. They do get wise to them at lotta spots. Creek rats are the easyest to colony or funnel trap. They aint so touchy to resistance in the current I think.
Some neat advanced tricks out there like: suspending traps in deep water, over concreate or tubes w/o use of bottom stakes. adding tension to doors in current where needed. Mass deployment over a broad front-3'-6' wide and/or deep. Use of blocking wire/panels and speed deployment. deploying large mass of traps over angled bottoms quickly. Spotting when and where, its worth it and productive, and a few tricks that make it work.
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