Steve, Resting set question

[trappnman]

good posts for sure-

calvin, are your observations on rats, on above water traps?

[RdFx]

Brass washers make a slick set off of pan. The dog to regular pan doesnt present a problem if traps are waxed.

[calvin]

Yes, T man. All the rats walking on traps were above the water line. I didn't "seem" to have much of any issue below the waterline but never saw one working them so don't really know...and now wonder. Just figured the water did act as some kind of lubricant between the dog/pan making it less tension under the water. Maybe it was an issue, I just didn't see it. Just noted how much they step all over a trap before they get caught. Some were likely missing the pan completely and some partial on and off the pan I/m guessing. Saw some that had to be right on the pan, though and found PILES of dung on top of some of the traps the next day. We/re talking not even being able to see the pan piles.

Gears start turning when you watch a rat make 4 or 5 trips over the top of your trap turn around on the trap, then swims off with his middle finger in the air.

As far as the wax issue, I agree that wax will make any setup great and light tension. The issue comes into play when the wax comes off and your not in a place that you can re-wax a trap. Of course this may not be an issue the first couple days but a couple weeks into it, in bad water and things start to tighten up on you. In hind sight, I would have brought those little wax sticks with me (that you use to wax a bowstring) and hit those problem trap dogs with that bowstring wax every few days or so. I bet you could to a lot of traps with one of those $2 tubes and all that is needed is the connection between the dog and pan notch...a swipe or two on the dog would take care of it. Of course that didn't come to mind until I was driving home.

[seldom]

Oct 1, 2011 17:38:47 GMT -6 calvin said:

Even thought about taking a torch to the springs to kill the tension....especially at current rat prices, but then i/m back to the stock latch setup, so they/ll probably stay water/coon traps.

Sorry, kind of ended up into the pinch pans thread.

No need to resort to that Calvin because there is one other way to lessen the tension which follows a basic law of physics. Remember Beav remarked-

Decreasing tension on larger traps Is very simple.
First we will all agree that loosening the pan bolt will give us a free dropping pan (when not set) But we still have tension when set due to the force created by the spring pressure forcing the jaw against the dog. New traps more then older traps.

Well what he was talking about was the jaw acting as a fulcrum with the dog(a lever, a teeter-totter, etc). The dog is attached at one end at the post the other, the pan. Move the fulcrum point toward the post and you will lessen the tension of the dog at the pan. It's a basic principle of physics!

In order to achieve having a trap with the least amount of tension possible and with all other things equal, you have to move the jaw/post relationship(fulcrum) as close together as possible for maximum lessening of tension at the dog/notch. If you bend the post(dog eye) so that it is as close to the jaw as possible, you have to shorten the dog in order to level the pan but you have effected the tension to it's least amount at the pan.

Kelly posted some photos of a bunch of traps and two were set on the "pinch-pan thread", look at where the jaw contacts the dog on each. See the difference? One has the jaw quite close to the post, the other, quite a ways away. If everything about these traps were equal, the trap on the left with the jaw close to the post would have to cause the pan to have the lesser amount of tension on it than the trap on the right.

[kelly]

Great observation, Seldom! The trap at left is original "pinch pan" Victor 1.5 coil with a replacement pan. One on right is the newer bolt/nut pan Victor 1.5 coil. Guess just another reason why I love these old "pinch pans" so much. The pan does fire real easy on them.

[thorsmightyhammer]

I'll bring kelly's picture over here seldom. i dont think he'll mind.

Kelly, did you file down the pan post on the trap at the right?

[calvin]

Aaaah, Never thought of how the distance between the dog post and the jaw effected pan tension. Hmmmm.

Guess a guy could bend that dog post way in and grind the end of the dog itself off on the grinder.

Without looking, I/d bet there is this difference between the Dukes and the Bridgers in general. Many Dukes are a tad stiff tension wise (and I have noticed that the dog post is far away from the jaw) and the Bridgers (talking #2s) are always a pretty light tension. Makes sense in the photo above as well.

[thorsmightyhammer]

BTW seldom, I agree the one on the left should have less tension all things being equal.

[lumberjack]

Now we will all be hammering our dog posts inward. I had one dog eye so close once that it kept the jaws from closing.

[Rally Hess]

Calvin,
When you put a washer on both sides of the pan and a 10x32 brass machine screw, there is no metal to metal surface to rust. It will all be steel to brass, and no rust issues with a clean let off and no slop. Squeezing some of that slop out of the dog eye will also eliminate some slop and aid in a crisp let off. Close the eyes of the dogs first and then move your dog posts over and grind the dog to length for the best results. There is usually plenty of space between the pans and the pan post to allow a washer on both sides without much alteration. If you look at the way the Duke pans sqeeze together on the pan you will notice they only come in contact with the pan at the top leaving lots of space at the bottom. Some of my Victors were quite tight and I just thinned the pans down by laying them on the side of my chopsaw wheel. The alteration is well worth the time IMO, and ends the rats or mink walking on the trap.
I've got about nine months of trapping SD, both water and land and didn't have any problems. There is something in that water there that is quite corrosive. May be sulphur though. Some of the slews have a white ring around them when the water gets low.

[calvin]

Thanks Rally...I have some new traps here I/ll do just that with.

As far as SD water, I had one small pond that was pure white. Same color as milk. Visibility, Zero. Was kind of eerie stepping into that one with fog rolling off of it. Like standing in some old swamp monster movie.

I was also drinking the water from the faucet out there. Could tell that the dog was a bit standoffish on it. Motel lady says..."don't drink this water...everyone dies of cancer out here. Go buy some". Off to the store I went.

[kelly]

Oct 2, 2011 17:00:24 GMT -6 thorsmightyhammer said:

I'll bring kelly's picture over here seldom. i dont think he'll mind.

Kelly, did you file down the pan post on the trap at the right?

Don't believe I did but could have. Those pictures are old-know I was trying the pinch pans on the nut/bolt Victors and found out how critical the bending of the ears were. First one I bent them too short so that the dog wouldn't go into and under the pan-may have file the top of pan posts on that one, but only that one. Never continued putting the pinch pans on the bolt/nut 1.5 because I liked the 1.75 pan better. They set just a tad higher than stock pan but that works fine for me as I like a little pan travel, too.

[calvin]

Yes, the bend of the ears on the pinch pans are critical. Not only as you say, Kelly, with the height but also forward and back have big consequences in pan tension. Too far one way and the trap won't stay set, too far the other and it acts as a PIT deal, meaning as you push downward towards the end of the stoke, the pan will rise back up if let off....Like A duke #5 before it rides over the notch.

Luckily, Sawatski gave me detailed information on this before I started....Saved me a ton of time, frustration and money. One reason I wish they came pre bent...all the exact same. The bend is critical.