Trapline dog?

[Zagman]

I would like to see a good coyote trained dog on the line-

Come on up.....$250/day, room and board on me.

MZ

[trappnman]

man, I only charge $150- and I'll feed you.

free to friends......

[flatiron]

Have ya got a good coyote dog? Zagmans got two! I've been working mine all summer , just out of curiosity I've been taking my dog to spots where I trapped last year . Yep , peed all over , looked things over and the fox and yotes had been working those same spots . He's showed plenty of others since then . The dog takes plenty of guess work out of that micro spot.

[northof50]

It's not the dogs that need training, it's the owners have to read the dog's sign,(seagull/duck) and not to interfer with the working dog's nose. Take a female out in eistrus and have her pee a few spots, just never let her off her lead, better yet harnes, and you will see some good captures the next few days.

[trappnman]

"peed all over"

so that helped how?

"looked things over and the fox and yotes had been working those same spots ."

yes, if one looks, sign is there

[flatiron]

Those dogs will show you plenty you don't see w/ the naked eye , yep peed all over ! I'm working this dog as he's new to me ,I knew there would be sign there and wanted to see the reactions from him . He's shown me plenty of other spots since then . Hey , you seem to be the expert and I don't really need to get in a pissing match w/ you , just stating some observations and how a trapline dog can be of help .

[trappnman]

I know exactly how a trapline dogs works- so please don't get up on your high horse with me- got a low tolerance level for that lately.... in a pissing match- you'd lose.

and no expert- but it doesn't take an expert to set a trap where a dog pees, now does it?

my question was- does a trained coyote dog, pee any different than a good scent type dog?

Common sense says no- but I don't know. My only observation is over 4 decades watchign hounds. And more intense watching of my hound now when coyote trapping- hes out at every set, and he often defeceates or pees on clumps, that close inspection shows use by the canines.

and don't know why you personally felt insulted, but to me a stamtent of your dog "pissing all over" seems to me to not impart much if any information.

I understand that a coyote dog has other uses- primarily, out west, as a calling dog.

Trailing drags- but a hound trials drags w/o any problem- but to be fair, have had him trial just fox on light drags, and coon on drags in/coyote sets.

I have no doubt, that a good dog can pinpoint locations, but am wondering HOW much difference an actual coyote trained dog would be?

[Zagman]

Use as a calling dog and the inevitable dog/coyote entanglement that occurs when a dog finds a trapped coyote is certainly a good reason to have a dog that can and will fight a coyote.

Still, Vern Dorn saw some value in breeding some hound into the final Dorn dog product.....I believe they were Plotts.

MZ

[trappnman]

Use as a calling dog and the inevitable dog/coyote entanglement that occurs when a dog finds a trapped coyote is certainly a good reason to have a dog that can and will fight a coyote.


I can see how it would be- I'd not want Buddy to grab ahold of one!

Plotts are good hounds- Pat Moffitt of the Karo kennels in Iowa, is credited as one of the innovators of the Plott breed- the only other hounds he ran were beagles.

[Zagman]

When we had beagles, and all our buddies also had them, there were clearly dogs with DRIVE and DESIRE, and others that were just along for the ride.

Right or wrong, at the kill, we gave the dogs treats from the inside of the rabbit........I know, I know.....bad idea, but this was years ago. Liver/kidneys, usually.

Those beagles could not wait for us to clean the rabbit......that was their prize. Some beagles even retrieved for us!

To your question, and an analogous statement with trap dogs.....

Right or wrong, my dogs LOVE to fly out of the truck and tangle with trapped coyotes......its the highlight of their day, hopefully repeated several times over, if I do MY job!

And after the dispatch, they really like to grab the dead coyote and kill it again! They do the classic terrier-with-a-rat-in-it's mouth head shake.....its their icing on their cake.

In lab/retriever jargon, its their FUN bumper.

I think this is why they act "birdy" on coyote stink vs. domestic dog stink......and I thinks its why they run TOO fast when tracking a dragged coyote.....they cant wait to grab the son-of-a-gun.
And, obviously, its why they will run 400 yards out to a called coyote, ready to give it to him......

So, to the point......while I think ANY dog would help on the line, I firmly believe that a dog that has added up the pieces in their brain (dead rabbit/treats at end of beagle chase = coyote fight/death shake at the end.) is a better trapline dog choice.

Make sense?

MZ

[coydog]

Zagman, or any others , What do you do with your dogs during the off-season to keep them sharp, or once they have it, they have it.

Also, I have a 8 month old Airedale that I have been trying to work into becoming my trapping partner, any things you might suggest to get them interested before the season starts, or is the line where they get it or don't?

[Zagman]

I was cage trapping coons and letting the pup work on them, though the cage ensured that the coon could not hurt the pup, yet gave him tons of confidence....

Till he tangled with a real, UNCAGED coon!

A coon can and will do far more damage to these dogs than any coyote will. The dog clearly sees that the coon is smaller and jumps right in......the coon uses all of its teeth and claws to ensure the dog does not stay there.....

BUT, due to getting their butts whipped and their terrier blood, this just makes them madder, and they go right back in.

Light my buddy from MT says.....better carry a stiff needle and some dental floss.

I go out of my way to avoid coon counters with these dogs.....no sense getting them hurt needlessly during my brief few weeks of using them on coyotes,.......same with red fox, the dogs dont play with them for the opposite reasons.......the dogs will simply rip them apart.

Tom Krause in Dynamite Fox Trapping: "Better get your needle and thread out. Fur buyers dont see many nine foot long fox"

Unfortunately for me, they turn into non-working dogs this time of year, though I take them out all the time......

Some day, would love to den with them in the spring here in NY....

Have started calling with them on the Oct 1st opener when family groups are almost for sure to still be together. Increases the odds of a sighting to have multiple customers respond.


Zagman

[flatiron]

Great post Mark , you've covered the whole realm of using a dog on the line plus they make awful good companions on a long sometimes boring day. I use to have an Airedale that rode w/ me daily and also a big black field trialer Lab later on . I use to use that lab at night calling fox , never lost a cripple and he treed plenty of coons after the calling set up ended . We didn't have the huge fields that we do know and I used more drags saved me lots of time.

[trappnman]

actually Zags- I find as many good beagles, care less about the rabbit after its killed. I've had several Fd CH, and many others, that would just come up to a dead rabbit, give it a good smell, and look for another. In beaglin, for the hound, is usually the chase, not the kill. But, I've of course had many hounds that are the opposite- they will eat that bunny if they could. My point, is that wanting the dead rabbit, has nothing to do with drive, desire, or ability.

The danger of feeding hounds intestinal parts- is parasites.

[Stanley]

Today, came to one of those sets. Everything didn't go to plan. So I let the dogs loose. We went in one direction, nothing. Went back to starting point, Rosy B-lined to swamp grass Big fun.

[musher]

Those dogs are just a nice size. I had to eye track a fox snared on a pole yesterday. I didn't have a dog with me. Luckily the fox hit some sand so i was able to find it.

[rionueces]

I used a Catahoula as an all purpose dog back when I was younger. She could do it all. Very good at finding coyotes on drags. Catching and holding small pigs. Trailing a wounded deer. Putting a coon up a tree. Guarding the truck from thieves and beer stealers. Sniffing out wild steers that wouldn't come to feed.....

[strow]

I have two Jagdterriers and one or both are always along on the trapline or when calling. They find as much sign and scat as I do. They are also pretty quick about trailing down drags and marginally hit (called) coyotes. For me they are just good company to have along! I wouldn't willingly trap or call without a dog along.

(PLEASE ADD YOUR LOCATION TO YOUR PROFILE- THANKS)

[rk660]

If anyone gets a Jagd in future, DO NOT let them mess with a coon in a cage trap, as they will break their teeth on the cage.

[last chance]

Thanks rk I got a jagd this spring and that was the plan.