Trapline dog?

[swdawg]

I've never had a trapline dog but am interested in the possibility.I would like to do some research first before going ahead(first time for everything ).I've got lots of time as I will wait until my English Pointer passes on.

I'd like your input guys as there seems to be a lot of knowledge out there.

I know almost nothing about trapline dogs.I've heard a little about mountain curs and Aerdales and O'Gorman/Dorn dogs.This will be tough to answer as everything is speculative when it comes to working dog preference.I will mention a few points I thought of and then let you guys run with it.

I live on a farm so no neighbour problems.

The dog will have to live outside in Canadian prairie winters.

It's just me, no kids or anybody else.But not looking for cujo here either.

Don't want it killing barn cats.Or going walkabout on it's own(I have trained other dogs to stay home or die....never had to kill one yet.)

It is a working dog first but will be a companion too when I'm home.I don't take my dogs with me everywhere I go.But I guess this kind of changes a bit since it would be going on the trapline with me.

Will use it for checking the trapline for coyotes.Needs to have a nose too if I start using drags and to trail a wounded coyote occassionally when calling coyotes.

This is the tough part now.Can I take it on the snare line?Keep in mind I use Ram power snares.This translates into a dead dog if it gets caught in a snare.Can it be trained to avoid snares?Can a special collar be used to prevent snare death?

It would really only be used for coyotes.No coons,no bunnies.

This is just a start I guess.Please feel free to point out other considerations I haven't thought of.

Oh yeah, I have cows.Zero tolerance on chasing livestock if you know what I mean.

Thanks guys.

[redsnow]

You might be able to "train" it to stay out of snares, but chances are you'll catch it at least once. With power snares, chances are slim it'll die of old age.

[musher]

You'd have to train it to be scared to death of the Rams BEFORE it gets caught in one.

Or have some sort of neck brace!!

[billmeyerhoff]

I've been thinking about getting one myself. Searched the web and a Mountainview Cur sounded
like something I'd be interested in. Don't want a large dog and the females go less than fifty pounds when mature. Not a lot of breeders and they have to be proven hunting dogs to get registered.

Might want to do a search and see what you think.

[rockcreekcurs]

Lots of breeds would probably fit the bill for you as a trap line dog. I have Mountain Curs and Jagdterriers and I think they both would do a great job, for what you are wanting. I have buddies that use German Wirehaired Pointers, Labs, Black Mouth Curs, Catahoulas, Blue Lacy's, Pit Bulls, Patterdales, Jack Russels, Irish Terriers, Kerry Blue Terriers, Heelers and Aussies. They are all different and do different things.

The real thing to worry about is what dog you are going to like the most... there are lots of good choices for a trapline dog, just make sure you find a good buddy too!

The snares are definitely going to be a problem, as the dog will most likely get into one at some point despite any and all effort on your part. A good handle and a good shock collar could help keep the dog close to you in areas you have your snares out, but all it will take is one accident. Best of luck to you. Take care.

Here is a picture of my buddy's old Jagdterrier on a trapped coyote.

[troymcdaniel]

Attention Billymeyerhoff do plenty of research before you buy a Mountainveiw Cur they are just a knock off of a Kemmer Cur cause the man that came up with them was barred from the Kemmer Association for being a crook and a CHEAT!!!!!!!!!

[northof50]

One of the most important words to train that dog before it goes into the field is; WHOA......and an immediate stop then and there.
The story her is I told my Briatanny that whoa and she creapt 2 steps into a #2 set 10 feet before a 220. That was the last word she remembered, as the 2 of us tried to get the trap off her front foot, I removed my winter gloves, where upon I had several canines inplanted in my knuckles. She got out and after that the word; whoa ,,, really ment stop,,,, and she did for the rest of her life.
Taught early not to fight a lead or collar/ leash then when they do come across a snare they stop and it is like the training with the collars and they don't struggle and chock. Been my experience.
2 inch collars take up the impact of the Ram power snare and the 6 times hunting dogs I have heard of have lived. You will need a good set of cable cutters for rapid removals close at hand.

[swdawg]

It's funny that someone mentioned Aussies.I had an Australian Shepherd but lost him to parvo.He had been in a scrap with a coyote in my yard and the coyote ran him into some wire and he got cut up.He healed up after stitches but a month later he got parvo and was dead a day and a half later.

This was a super smart dog and very aggressive with coyotes and a good worker on cows.I have since thought that he would have made a good trapling dog given his smarts and disposition.Didn't realize that others have used that breed for the trapline.I really miss that dog.

Lots of great input guys.Thanks and keep it coming.

[swdawg]

I'm a big believer of Whoa for all dogs.And I mean a solid right now Whoa.

Good advice on the collar.I've thought of designing a special collar of some sort just for the Rams.They are definitely something to be taken seriously.

I carry cable cutters all the time on the snareline,but good to reinforce the idea.Thanks.

[rockcreekcurs]

I apologize for leaving out a very useful breed... that is the Mutts. Some of the best trap line dogs I have ever heard of have been mixed up dogs, some not even known what they were. This is a picture of the same female in the background of the picture above. My buddy that owned her is a Government hunter/trapper and he said she was the best he ever owned. He said she knew what he was thinking and did her job accordingly every time. I know from how he talks about her, he would give a bunch for her back right now. His best guess is Catahoula/ Mtn Cur or Hound cross. He said she was the real deal and I believe him. So don't look past a mixed breed of working dogs that could also fit the bill. I know several guys that use mixed up dogs on the line as well... sorry I let them slip my mind. Here is another pic of Sally and a trapped coyote. Take care.

[rockcreekcurs]

Another thing you might consider is a good hog proof full neck collar. I don't think a simple 2" collar would suffice as that leaves a lot of room for a snare to do it's work. If you need places to find one let me know. I hope you find what you are looking for. Take care.

[trappnman]

so exactly what are you looking for when you say you are going to use it on coyotes?

Because unless you are using them as a deccy dog, there really isn't anything special you can do with them on a coyote line.

just about all hunting style working dogs will use their noise enough to follow drags- esp if encouraged and trained to do so- a pretty simple task really.

my beagle has followed the drags the few times I needed that-

the other main use on a coyote line is using their noses as your eyes- and when they pee on something- or run a trial a certain way, you can set up there. I don't set up much this way, but could as again the beagle will pee on the same objects any canine would pee on.

What I'd look for first- is a breed you like. Since its going to be in the truck with you all day, you got to be buddies.

If I didn't like beagles, and they weren't the perfect size for a travelling dog- I'd get an airedale. My dad had those, and they have an excellent trial nose, and are big enough and aggressive enough if thats your wants.

but honestly, never saw much reason to let a dog work a coyote in a trap.

[Stanley]

It's not the dog, it's the owner. A person, has to be willing, to put the," TIME". Into the dog, to get the wanted results. There will be some dogs that will need to be culled or find a new home. Some are fast learners, while others are slow.

[northof50]

In the old days the training was speed up real fast by "the red herring trail" on tracking/pointing dogs.

ram snare set off's=
The wide dog collars brace's the spring impact on the dogs neck when it goes off so the vertibrae are not shattered. If the dog is a runner or fighter it's not a good sight, especially if you are not close @ hand.

[swdawg]

Lots of good points made guys.Thanks.Like I said, I have lots of time to consider a trapline dog,breed,or no trapline dog at all.

My interest in one stems from the possibility of using drags in a few really good places that I am not comfortable in staking.Good locations but with traffic,even though they are in the boonies,the trap and coyote would be gone.I know of one trapper who quit the area simply because of this kind of trouble a few years ago.Some other good areas have opened up with gas well drilling,but of course,same traffic problem.

Helping to find scent stations was another thought in my mind.

I have no interest in a dog worrying a staked down,trapped coyote either.Seems silly to me.Why would anyone want to encourage that kind of activity?

I will think long and hard about whether I can justify a trapline dog.I will not enter into the decision lightly.Good points were made of having a "buddy" for a dog.Or also for other breeds or mutts filling the bill.That is why I started this thread.So I could get input and perspectives I hadn't yet considered.

I am very leery of taking a dog on my snare line.Don't see the upside to it and am very worried about the downside.Just think it might be hard to take the dog on an earlier trapline and then tell him he has to stay home once snare season starts.(See, my dogs are my buddies).

Might be handy(his nose and speed) to track down the odd one that is shot and lost.But don't know how often that would happen.I guess if you have him you use him rationale fits here.

Anyway,thanks for the help.It won't happen this year,but for once in my life I'm going to take my time and really think things through before I leap ahead.

I like the idea of just a buddy dog or other working dog fitting in as a trapline dog more and more.

[trappnman]

I like the idea of just a buddy dog or other working dog fitting in as a trapline dog more and more.

I had a tremendous offer of a trained coyote dog, and I thought long and hard about it........ but in all honesty, size was a concern. a beagle is right size for me.

If size isn't a consideration- go with an airedale or airedale type (like Zags dogs). I grew up with them, and they would saisfy your needs perfectly. Or a lab.

[Zagman]

Any endeavor that is hunting or outdoor related is better with a dog......

Those who have not used a good dog on the coyote line really dont know what they are missing......many (if not most) western ADC men/coyote guys have dogs.....and it aint for the companionship.

And if you dont buy that, i.e, the value of a dog on the 'line (and I dont mean working a coyote over in a trap), i.e, you are skeptical....I understand, but....

Go back to the first sentence I typed......

We are all die-hard trappers, whether full time or part-time like me....

MANY of us own dogs anyhow.....so if you are a trapper and you are going to have a dog as a pet, why NOT get a dog for the line?

My dogs have totally changed the way I trap coyotes......and I will never trap coyotes again without a dog.

Just like some guys will never chase rabbits again without a beagle.....can I shoot rabbits without beagles? Yup.....but it is probably less efficient, and certainly a whole lost less fun.

Zagman

[trappnman]

.0Zags- let me ask yo uthis-

what exactly- are the things you want a dog to do on the line for you?

and a specfic question- do you think that a coyote trained dog, would be more apt to piss on "the" location, different from any outdoor dog (one used ot outdoor scents)

[Zagman]

I did not say they had to be a coyote dog....I said everyone should consider a trapline dog....regardless of model.

But, YES, a coyote trained dog acts differently at coyote marked spots than they do where other dogs have marked, even themselves.

My dogs pee one thousand times a day, I swear.....but, they act differently/more obviously on coyote markings....they just dont act that way with domestic dog smells.

They act "birdy" on the coyote spots......

My old lab Cody, in the blind, would notice a seagull on the wing, and simply look away.......but a duck? The flight pattern, the wing sounds.....he acted differently with the target species versus a seagull.......same with my dogs on coyote smells vs. domestic dog
smells.

We all love to set on sign......any honest trapper will tell you that sometimes they are not sure of a location as to it being good or not. However, the finding of sign (terds, tracks, etc) sure makes you look at it differently.....right?

With hay fields and such, often, this sign is simply not noticeable to you and I......but whether a coyote marked grass tuft OR a pile of terds indisernable to you and I, but something that simply cannot escape a dog's nose, the dogs find "sign" for me that I would miss. Yes, there are a LOT of terds in the higher grasses/hay that you and I dont see, but other coyotes, and my dogs, find them.

The best way I can explain it is this: I think I am pretty good and picking canine locations......the dogs CONFIRM it.

MZ

[trappnman]

I don't doubt what you say- I'm not debating here, I'm questioning.

but I think, and this is THINK- that any scent trained hound- will give that same look at depositing urine on wild canine locations.

I do notice that Buddy pees more times that not, at locations that are visable coyote spots-
scat, etc.

I would like to see a good coyote trained dog on the line-



I got the whole