Rod17
Demoman...
Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 22, 2007 19:59:05 GMT -6
The fancy factory testers, most of which produce a slow constant pull, or gradually add weight until mechanical failure is reached, likely have little to no relevance to field conditions. Herein lies the problem with States setting any kind of regulations about BAD break away points. There is little to no correlation between dymanic force and static force for mechanical failure.
Most animals when caught will pull like crazy in all directions; their momentum creates dynamic force. No way to recreate the required variables without getting into alot of cost. I have been working on this issue for awhile and I can tell you, to do it right will be pricey. They (the States) may find a cheap way to "standardize" BAD testing but, it will be meaningless given the all the variables.
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Rod17
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 20, 2007 21:06:17 GMT -6
Thanks Dwaine!
RD
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 20, 2007 18:38:05 GMT -6
Dwaine...great feedback. Are you running 1x19 cable or 7x7? (i.e why the chained cam with stingers?)
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 19, 2007 19:42:47 GMT -6
Has anyone had a BAD that failed to hold a coyote? If so, give us some details: what kind of BAD, cable length, lock, entanglement/non-entanglement..etc
The fence snaring issue is a no-brainer - if the attachment point is flexible, no BAD can be expected to perform as advertised.
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 18, 2007 15:25:28 GMT -6
Danny, thanks for the info.
For most of us in the west, by Nov/Dec/Jan the deer are "adult size" -- so I hope that BADs can be used effectively to hold a coyote and release an adult mule deer (even a yearling at that). I would also think that even an adult whitetail could exhert more force (due to mass and and longer legs) than a coyote and snap a BAD? any opinions on that assumption?
However, the fact that you have had the Amberg ferrules release is useful. Did you make the snares yourself - using the Amberg swagger ?
thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 18, 2007 10:26:47 GMT -6
TC38: Good info.
You said that they "...hold the majority of coyotes", so I assume that you have had some coyotes pull the BAD apart? I know nothing in this world is 100% but give us some more info about losing coyotes. Was this a non-entanglement situation, what length of cable, etc?.. anything that may help us understand how to use BADs to their maximum effectiveness.
What there a catch circle, a theft problem, other possibilities?
Do you think mosts BADs are over-rated in thier break-away poundage or under-rated? Personally, I want a BAD to release every deer or cow.
How do sheep figure into the BAD equation? do they fight snares enough to open a 90-100 lb-rated BAD.
thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 18, 2007 9:25:25 GMT -6
Anyone have experience with the High Desert break-away cam-locks?
I have heard that Utah has implemented a BAD requirement on snares, though I have not seen the newest proclamation. I would like to make some of my own snares this year and their are lots of choices for BADs.
Let's hear about your experience with break-away cam locks, Hopkins j-hooks, release ferrules, or any other BADs. Where I snare, I have a mix of mule deer, moose and elk. The latter 2 usually just knock snares down, so the main concern is releasing deer.
Thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 16, 2007 8:07:16 GMT -6
Bob..I have your videos and knew your opinion in advanced..but still really appreciate the feedback. And..I agree with you completely.
I think alot of folks have the notion that K9s tip-toe up to their sets (sometimes standing on only 2 feet - LOL) sneak around, pee and leave. Cant image how a critter that lives day to day in sage, scrub oak, plowed fieldds, mud, etc etc - all kinds of terrain, would even notice a tiny depression - or elevation for that matter, at the set. His attention is focused on the lure/bait/scent combo's.
other opinions welcome
thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 15, 2007 16:37:27 GMT -6
Every K9 trapping book, video, DVD etc always says there should be the slightest depression in the dirt over the pan.
Has anyone ever tested this notion? I mean really scrutinized how far from level that the dirt over the pan matters?
I mean, afterall, coyotes stand on the edge of plow marks in the fields, they stand on the top of varmint mounds to look down holes etc. No burrowing critter in the world smooths out the dirt in front of its hole. Yet most K9 "methods" show these pristine looking dirt patterns.
Many older books even show "mound sets" were a call lure or bait is placed some distance above ground and a trap is set on the top of a nearby mound (either natural or constructed for said purpose).
Now, I understand the principle of guiding the paw to where you want it, so obvisouly any elevation can't be too obtrusive -- but I wonder-- is the coytoe really as particular about where it places its foot as we are led to believe?
thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 18, 2007 15:33:36 GMT -6
Just emptied a bale of peat from last year into a big clean rubbermaid garbage can. The peat was bone dry.
Trapperman - you mentioned smells assoc with peat - Do you mean it just smells different or do you think it picks up odors?
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 8, 2007 20:17:45 GMT -6
yep...the Sterling line of traps is as good as steel gets.
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 4, 2007 17:09:47 GMT -6
Thanks Steve, good info!
I have never been a dog person, but recently bought a German Sheperd puppy for my girls (yeah, right, now he's mine - in responsibilty and "theirs" when its playtime). He's about 4 months old and about 25 pounds, in height and length about the size of our adult local coyotes.
This could become a completely seperate thread, but it has been very intresting watching how he approaches things, unknown smells, unknown objects etc. - the amount of pacing back-and-forth sniffing around an area that he smells something new. His nose and feet are nearly touching. So, how similar is dog behavior to coyote behavior?
Do you think K9s in the wild act this way? I just finished Mark June's new Coyote Trapping book and he comments extensively on the pacing around coyotes do at sets.
Thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 4, 2007 15:24:39 GMT -6
Steve, this has turned into a very intersting thread. I am not sure that much can be made from a domestc dogs response to certain smells, but it has been a good springboard for lots of discussion.
For those of us that dont do summer ADC work on coyotes, tell us what smells and or baits work well at that time I year. What I am wondering is if "loud" smells to us are the same to coyote. I think not. Our olfactory perception is very limited, and we can only discern a few really strong odors in any concotion...skunk, overly rotten baits, rotten eggs. Most lures have many components and I suspect those components can be easily distinguished by a coyotes nose and make him work a set differently.
What I am getting is at that for anyone to simply call any bait or lure "loud" is likely to be too superficial -- because I would imagine certain smells (regardless of our perception) must work better at certain times.
To bring this full circle, what has everyones experience been with summer lures, baits, smells?
Thanks
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Aug 3, 2007 19:28:56 GMT -6
I agree with Brian. Try your test again by putting the scents above ground, where air movement, and will make the scents stronger. Lets us know what happens.
I would bet, however, that alot of sprung traps are due to rollers and not missed paws.
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 26, 2007 17:47:01 GMT -6
I would think that being part of their natural diet that it would be excellent bait. You may want to add a curosity-type lure to increase thier interest, especially early when food is plentiful. For late season use, you may need to add some glycol or bait anti-freeze, otherwise meat freezes up and doesnt give off a much odor.
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 29, 2007 19:12:22 GMT -6
RK660 - saw the snaps-links on your on-line catalog. I like that kind of speed - but worry about trap thieves, as much of my line is on public land. The ideal connector for me is one that does not require welding but would require significant effort (or tools) for someone else to remove.
The idea of closing the quicklinks with two pairs of pliers/channel locks sounds easy enough and may thwart potential theft. I have used the snap-links for snare extension but not footholds.
Thanks for the feedback
Randy
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Rod17
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 25, 2007 9:48:49 GMT -6
Lots of good info in this thread:
Are a a few specific comments to you guys:
Cflann - I think you are right about two different items - I assumed most folks meant the split rings that look like a big keyring, not a lock-washer. However, would be good for everyone to clarify what they are actually using.
Robert - thanks for the tip about using a cable cutter to open S-links. I will give it a try.
Steve: I never re-use S-hooks either. Everything I take on the line has to be carried quite a distance so keeping weight down is important. I have a bolt cutter but would not want to carry it with me over the terrain and distances I go. What do you cut your s-links with?
thanks all
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 24, 2007 20:56:14 GMT -6
Steve, always good to hear about close calls or outright failures with certain gear. I would imagine that there is different quality to everything we use and split rings are likely no exception.
Although I like the idea of split rings (cost, weight, etc), I am concerned about trap thieves. A quick link that is tightened shut with a set of pliers is likely to be a real challenge to the average bum who stumbles acorss a set and doesn't have any tools with him.
How easy is it to get the trap chain or cable stake loop through the split ring? Would it require a screwdriver or knife blade to pry the ring open enought to remove the trap?
Randy
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 24, 2007 17:05:45 GMT -6
Bill1306....do you weld the split rings? Have you ever have a trap or extension work its way out an un-welded split ring?
I am looking for something easy to install/remove, as needed, on the line and dont want to use s-hooks. Every s-hook tool have I have used has broken after a few uses (when opeing s-hooks).
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Rod17
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Posts: 229
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Post by Rod17 on Jul 23, 2007 21:19:34 GMT -6
thanks for the info.. I appreciate it.
Randy
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