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Post by trappnman on Feb 15, 2008 14:54:03 GMT -6
brandon, you simply don't have a clue as to what you are talking about in selling green furs.
and Im not going to get into it here- but is the man that takes 3000 coon a year lazy becasue he doesn't put up coon for a lousy couple of bucks put up fee/ Or smart?
There are many reasons to sell green fur- and LAZY seldom comes into it.
and selling green fur- has NOTHING to do with the ethics of a buyer like groeny.
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Post by BrandonH on Feb 15, 2008 15:43:40 GMT -6
First off, the average trapper that we are talking about (and the guy you guys are saying is getting screwed by Groeny)is not the guys catching 3000 coon. If a man is putting that much time and effort into catching thall of it, he certainly will find a way to market it to make him happy. I'm sure if he wasn't happy with what/how he was selling his coon for (green , carcass, etc), he wouldn't catch so many of them.
Sure there are many reasons to sell green fur.... While there may be many, I'm not sure how many good ones there are. You seem to have a system you like for selling your coon, green. That's great! BUT, fact of the matter is you compromise your position when selling fur in the grease. For example, you got 50 coon in the grease to go sell. You want $18 each. Buyer offers $14... There you stand thinking about having to bag up all those thawed out, greasy coon back up and put them back of the freezer.... Then get them out of the freezer again to go sell yada yada.. Most of them , say heck w/it and sell.... Conversely, if you've got those 50 coon put up in one bag, it's a lot easier to walk away if you aren't happy with the price/ethics of said furbuyer.
Frankly, I don't care how anybody sells their fur. I just get tired of hearing people saying what a crook furbuyers are. Groeny must have made a bunch of people happy with prices, because they seem to be buying fur every year. And, I don't think they are holding guns to any of those guys heads.... BH PS I'm not a furbuyer LOL
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Post by trappnman on Feb 15, 2008 15:55:48 GMT -6
its NOT THE PRICE- do you understand that?
Its the TECHNIQUE.
BUT, fact of the matter is you compromise your position when selling fur in the grease.
bull- so they are thawed, so what? what do you think the buyer usually does with them? it takes a few hours to thaw enough to sell if you don't roll them up- and I quit doing that years ago, and they freeze back just as easily. Being unthawed for a short period hurts nothing.
but more importantly- an this is a concept that seems to be hard to come to grips with- is that selling fur shouldn't have to be an "watch your a$$ endeavor"
That selling fur implies a relationship- and if you don't have that with your buyer, thats too bad- so when I take my fur over, I know WHAT the ballpark figure is, and having SOLD enough fur to know the quality (real value now) I know what my fur is worth, often to within 20-40 dollars on a couple of $1000 in fur.
I don't expect a bait and switch.....
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Post by Mike Prust on Feb 15, 2008 16:16:24 GMT -6
I personally never sold to Groeny. A few years ago I helped a friend start trapping. I gave him pointers on catching coon. Several weeks after the season started, my freind called me and was quite upset. Seems he took 20+ coon, in the grease to sell. Greony told him, none of the coon were worth a penny. I asked him if he left the coon with Groeny our brought them home? He advised he kept them and put back into the freezer. I then helped him put up these coon. Sent them to NAFA and he averaged slightly over $14.00. To say the least he was very happy. He now puts up all his own fur and ships. Anyone can say waht they want, but doing this to a first time trapper, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Mike!
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Post by garman on Feb 15, 2008 17:14:03 GMT -6
So Brandon the guy who lives in an apartment and has no place to put up is he lazy, or the guy who gets sick during season and cannot put up fur and runs out of freezer space is he lazy? Pretty warped view in my mind, fur is worth what it is worth and those buyers whom lie, etc to get the fur bought at a lower price are plain UNETHICAL nothing more nothing less. But those who sell to them are either in a bad way due to circumstances, not knowledgeable or should walk away. Finally, your statements of someone being lazy if they do not spend the money to put up their fur shows me you need to take some time to walk in others shoes. This all is coming from a guy that says it is a trappers responsibility to learn about their fur and sell when they feel they are getting a fair deal.
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Post by SgtWal on Feb 15, 2008 17:33:05 GMT -6
$100 dollars for the equipment and $50 a month for a rental storage unit to use for a fur shed. Far more people live in apartments and such these days. Or the mother/wife/girl friend won't have the "stinkin' things" around. Far to many of you guys think all trappers have all the goodies, and room to hang and put up fur. The most common seller to the local buyer has always been the kid getting started. The oldtimers looked for the better markets, and the kids did business where Dad would take them. And very very often that meant a stop on the way home from running the line to get them out of the trunk or truck. If you are sure the kids are getting screwed then step up, be the man, and YOU buy it from them at that better price. That or offer to pay their shipping to NAFA. DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE, or shut up and mind your own business. We all paid our dues, and if they get discouraged at low prices then they wouldn't have lasted long anyway.
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Post by BrandonH on Feb 15, 2008 17:48:03 GMT -6
I think you're missing my point altogether, Garman. I AM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE FOR SELLING FUR GREEN!!! oops caps lock stuck People can sell fur anyway they would like. Heck, I've sold fur green at various times before. And, I'm not encouraging unethical behavior. But how many times have furbuyers ended up with slippers, shot-up, rubbed, junk that trappers slide through? How many gaping bullet holes that get sewn up every year end up shredded at the tannery? I've even heard Sharpies being used to spot up a bobcat . Cuts both ways sometimes.... Good post, SgtWal!
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Post by Wright Brothers on Feb 15, 2008 17:50:40 GMT -6
Good reply Sgt, To add to. Step up and show these newbies how to do it. If they really want, they will, if not, they will keep complaining.
If you were traveling buyer how many pelts in the grease, skinned by kids, would you want to buy at top buck?
We've all seen or will see the low ballers and learn to move on.
I wouldn't mind if that fur wagon rolled through here. If not good enough, don't sell.
As far as running out the local buyers, that's old news here. Last one I liked and trusted was in the 70s.
I have stories of shananigans by buyers, sure not going to bad mouth them to the world. Isn't that just as bad as the fur wagon guy pushing them down?
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Post by garman on Feb 15, 2008 18:09:21 GMT -6
And if he's too lazy to do it, he deserves what he gets from the buyer.... Explain how this is not badmouthing the guy who wants or has to sell green? So Sgt. Wal we should keep letting young kids take the bumps adn bruises like you. Ok, you have somepoint to that, then how will we make up the loss of trappers and trappers to unite together to fight anti's later on. As far as me young kids get beat down they know no better than to quit something that causes them pain, not all kids but most. Also I for one, just to let you know, am not badmouthing all furbuyers or any at all. But some are plain unethical. As far as teaching young ones, I have and many times still do and adults alike. So I feel I do have a right to say my point, that is what these forums are for. To debate
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 15, 2008 18:25:19 GMT -6
you`d all be in deep chit if groeny ever quits.
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Post by BrandonH on Feb 15, 2008 18:29:18 GMT -6
I stand by what I said. IF a trapper is too lazy to put-up his fur, he deserves what he gets. If he feels it is his best market, he's a smart guy...
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Post by garman on Feb 15, 2008 18:36:10 GMT -6
Brandon now you standing by what you said after I quoted you LOL well I guess. Bob I beleive most people would be surprised that alot of places they sell they are actually selling to groeny.
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Post by bankrunner on Feb 15, 2008 18:43:53 GMT -6
Got to give him credit, he's good at math. Throw coon into piles, add up, and still $12 average. 1@$35 1@$30 2@$24 12@$17 15@$11 10@$4 2@$1 Four at no value. Sound about right Beav, first try in my head and averaged around $12. maybe I need to buy fur. Hey Fred, I got $35 for a coon. Tell all your friends the coon market is hot.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 15, 2008 18:48:37 GMT -6
you`d all be in deep chit if groeny ever quits
Nope not "you'd", it would be "we'd"
With that said I still aint selling him squat.
It all boils down to seller error.
Bob, how many medium and small coon you catch in Indiana?
My smallest coon this year is a 2x and I put up every one, even the 4 5 pound dinks.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 15, 2008 18:51:29 GMT -6
my western coon probably AVERAGE 38" on 10" wide boards. so when I go west I`m in stawberries and steak. here in indiana I won`t mess with it as most are just too little to be worth my time.
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Post by CoonDuke on Feb 15, 2008 19:01:56 GMT -6
I am not getting into anything about Groeny since I never dealt with the man...
But, the vast majority of trappers in PA (and I would assume most of the northeast) that sell green do it simply because they don't want to put up fur.
There is only a small percentage that use that extra time to add more money to the fur check by catching more.
I don't know if the "lazy" term Brandon used is the right word, but there is not doubt that most trappers here are not practicing smart business by selling green. Maybe they use the time to spend with the family or other obligations which is fine. I think about it sometimes when I am putting up fur at 11:00 pm and have to wake up at 3 in the morning to check traps.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 15, 2008 19:09:44 GMT -6
and I stand by what I said- if a fur seller has to worry about being screwed, then he better find another buyer. Whether he sells fur in the round, green or put up.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 15, 2008 19:17:53 GMT -6
If you are sure the kids are getting screwed then step up, be the man, and YOU buy it from them at that better price. That or offer to pay their shipping to NAFA. DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE, or shut up and mind your own business
sgtwal- you are full of it on this one. A kid steps out in front of a car he didn't see- you would say nothing- that'l larn um! you'd say with justifiable pride for perpetuating the school of hard knocks.
And yet, I'm sure you bemoan the lack of young trappers.
Mind my own business? It is MY business buster- is YOUR business enjoying others getting screwed?
well, I'll not print my first thought on that to you- but will say this- buyers taking advantage of inexperienced IS my business- you see, I'd save that kid from the car.
so yes, I'll tell the inexperienced what to beware of- with or without your permission.
and a young trapper reading these posts, might stay in the game long enough to learn.
There ARE good buyers-
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Post by trappnman on Feb 15, 2008 19:20:50 GMT -6
bull- if groeny quit, other buyers would reappear to take his place- and there currently is NO lack of good other buyers in all the northern areas Groeny serves- I can sell local to at least 4 buyers within 75 miles- and I'd sell to any of them with the same confidence I have with mine.
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Post by CoonDuke on Feb 15, 2008 19:22:50 GMT -6
There are good buyers no doubt, but the trapper needs to form a relationship with them. When the trapper understands that the buyer needs to make money and doesn't try to screw them with junk fur, and the buyer understands that the trapper knows what their fur is worth, they can work together.
That being said, if you roll into a local fur auction here with a lot of green coon...your gonna take a beating. The buyers know the trapper will probably not walk.
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