Nice pair double from a calving ranch the otherday

[trappincoyotes39]

This was a pair of coyotes making trouble on a calving ranch. I cut open the female had 6 pups inside looked to be 1 week at the most away from dropping them. A great location.

[bobwendt]

what trouble? being seen? eating afterbirth?, scavenging deads? seriously, I hear these ranchers and most hate coyotes that have never cost them a dime and in fact are making them money cleaning by deads and keeping rodents down.

[jeffc]

The family I work for runs about a 200 and something cow calf operation and I have never seen a coyote kill a calf. When I had my goats and sheep my ram would eat coyotes lunches.

Jeff

[bobwendt]

I have no problem with anyoner eliminating coyotes year `round for the bad effects they have on cats and red fox and sheep and goats, but basically there is no coyote control for predation reasons in cattle country , as they just aren`t a factor in cattle, and the rare calf taken is usually abandoned or starving from a mama with no milk, or a tiny triple or twin that likely would never had made it anyway. when you weigh the removal of other grass eaters like antelope and deer fawns ,rabbits and other rodents, to a cattleman coyotes are a break even in cash value at worst, a positive at best. good thing ranchers think hey kill calves in numbers tho, or our access as trappers would likely be denied. and guys summer trapping for "depredation" would find paycks far and few in between.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob you are correct that calf kills are not what sheep kills are by any means, but they do take calves and it is not just the sick, the weak, the twin or triplet. I had an old coyote that killed a calf a good young healthy calf, and the scene was their to be proved the neck was god awful damage wise alot of mutilation, the reason being after the fact, is I didn't kill this particular coyote a cow did stomped it to death before I got a chance to kill it, he had 1 good canine tooth and just kept on that calf in the breaks until he got it.

Some never get reported as they are written off as a "lost" calf and others do like to proclaim far more calf losses than theri trully are, but when ranchers start seeing coyotes milling amongst the cows at all hours of the day and running some through fences that is reason enough to warrant control work. Also it doesn't have to be a direct kill, as many get killed from ma cow getting crazy about the coyotes that she herself stomps on the calf, now is that a loss because of the cow or a link to the coyotes?

It is an annual deal calving starts coyotes come to eat alot of placenta, but I also have a job to do and when their is alot of activity around the calving operations I will do what I can to lessen the grief to the ranchers, their already on edge being up at all times of the night and with the price of calves what they are, they want to protect their invesments. To state calf killing doesn't take place isn't correct while a smaller scale than sheep, they still have an impact each year. I had one ranch this spring that had 20 coyotes taken from it all within 3 miles of the calving grounds, the noise and seeing coyotes all day long was more than the rancher wanted so I did my job and the airplane did a fine job at that as well.

If you would like you can find out how many calves are killed by coyotes it is on the AHPIS/USDA web site and that doesn't count any that are not reported or areas with no ADC or a phone call made to someone.

I'll also state "open range" calving is different than eastern or Midwest US were you have cows stacked in a pen or 50 acre pasture, these cows 400-600 head are out on 1,000's of acres and that does make a differance too.

[bobwendt]

awe c`mon now. I work wyoming and ks and never seen a healthy calf killed by coyotes- ever! those aphis reports, they fill in what the rancher tells them, not documented stuff, and no differentiation between a dying calf that was so weak he would have died anyway and a healthy one. plus seeing a scavenged calf or even a killed near death calf every rancher and aphis guy puts on that count. we both know that. lol, but the m44`d kit foxs rarely make it on! I don`t care, nobody does, were are just talking over the fence post here trapper to trapper. like I said, I have no problem with it, and if you can get paid for it , all the better. but adc work in cattle country is maybe not bogus, but close. I remembver when I was in the vet biz a stable owner called me to give a clients horse a b12 injection. I said what for, have you had blood work done showing anemia? he says no, horse is fine, but she wants it done, now you want to make the $40 or should I call another vet? I went out and gave the shot and got my $40. If I had a rancher beefing about coyotes, I`d go do that too. plus it`s a lot more fun than giving b12 shots and I know I`m at the least helping all the other wildlife in the area. p.s., we have several thousand acre semi wooded ravine pastures in the east too, same as range calving. dogs are pretrty bad about running cattle thru fences and such, but never seen coyotes do that. they are pretty much there for the afterbirth, calf poop and the deads, big or little. in the big feedlots in ks the coyotes walk right thru pens of 500 feeders fenced in 1 acre lots, rows of them, maybe 100,000 head, picking up slipped calves they abort from heifers, and no cattle run off or go nuts.

[romans117]

Congrats TC.

Bob does over an population of yotes in a given area cause mange?

[jeffc]

Yep, when I'm riding pens at the feedlot the coyotes run right through the pen and the cattle don't pay any attention to them neither do the horses.

Jeff

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob then you just haven't been out and about enough? In the breaks and other big draw areas what you get on occasion is a cow and calf out by their lonesome away from the others and a brazen pair or a crazy coyote will and does take down some newborns plain and simple. The draws offer good ambush and can sneak up on them better, cows/calves on flats can see the critters comming from aways off.

I can't speak for ALL but I don't report any kill unless I verify it as a coyote kill and it doesn't matter to the rancher as they are all a write off at tax time anyhow. Coyotes and many other things can and do spook cows through fences depending on many things and we have Mt Lions that do that as well, again alot nope but it does happen.

Also to please you in 5-10 years not so "bogus" as the wolves keep getting closer and closer, then we will have a legitimate calf killer or don't wolves eat anything but deads and clean up for ma nature?

I would say those are some crazy coyotes if their willing to mill about 500 feeders on an acre? I see them get nervous of cows out on the open let alone that situation! Also 500 head to an acre those cows can't even see or smell a coyote with all that waste laying on the ground?

Again it comes down to do coyotes kill calves the answer is YES, numbers wise I can't speak for all states but it does happen, just like those that think they don't take down healthy deer either. While the numbers aren't in the same ball park as sheep, coyotes killing calves takes place believe it or not.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob just for you read it you may learn something Texas A&M did this report.

PREDATION IMPACTS AND MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES FOR REDUCING COYOTE DAMAGE TO CATTLE

RICKEY L. GILLILAND, District Supervisor, Texas Animal Damage Control Service, Box 277, West Texas A&M University, Canyon, TX 79016

Abstract: Loss of cattle to predators influences productivity of many livestock operations. Statistics indicate that coyote (Canis latrans) predation is a principle threat. Impacts to livestock resources by coyotes are appraised. Implementation of control strategies which capitalize on coyote dispersion and social interactions are discussed. Predator management to reduce livestock losses and promote a younger age structure in coyotes is suggested as a long term solution.

Coyotes have been part of rangeland ecosystems for thousands of years. Historically, their predatory niche took a subordinate position to larger predators such as wolves (Canis spp.), large cats (e.g., mountain lions, Felis concolor) and bears (Ursus spp.). Land use within the last 125 years has altered predator composition, favoring the highly adaptable coyote. This intelligent animal has flourished in the absence of competition with larger predators.

Behaviorally, the coyote has succeeded as an opportunist, exploiting a variety of food sources made available by man's agriculture and habitation. During this century, eastern habitats have supported high deer populations commingled with human settlement situated throughout agricultural and forested landscapes. These factors have contributed to a greater food base for coyotes (Thurber and Peterson 1991).

Presently, coyotes are expanding across much of continental North America. In Texas, coyotes continue to populate intensely-managed, low predator density areas through normal population dispersion and compensatory reproduction.

Predation impacts on cattle

Since 1970, numerous studies have been conducted to determine the magnitude of livestock losses to predators, particularly coyotes (Andelt 1987). Texas leads the nation in cattle, sheep, and goat production. According to the Texas Agricultural Statistic Service (1995), there were 15.1 million total cattle in Texas in December, 1994. The calf crop for 1994 totaled 6.2 million head.

Cattle production in Texas occurs among diverse operations which include range cattle, fed cattle (in feedyards), and dairy cattle. Overall, cattle distribution across the state is fairly uniform.

According to a survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service (1992), calf losses in Texas to predators during 1991 totaled 23,400 head. This represents an estimated $7.84 million loss to Texas producers. Predators accounted for 106,400 head of cattle and calves lost in the United States during 1991. Texas lost 26,400 head of cattle and calves to all predators accounting for an estimated value of $9.865 million. The value of the 17,200 cattle and calves lost in Texas to coyotes alone was $6.102 million (NASS 1992, Texas ADC Service 1993).
Predation to cattle occurs statewide with heavier impacts felt in the areas of high coyote densities. Generally speaking, higher coyote densities are found within the ecological areas surrounding the Edwards Plateau. Ranching operations within the Edwards Plateau principally support more sheep, goats, and exotic wildlife than cattle, as compared to the rest of the state. Consequently, intensive predator management is necessary to curb livestock losses. As a result, cattle production within this area benefits from a lower coyote population and is less likely to be impacted by predation than in areas of higher coyote density.
The South Texas Plains, Trans-Pecos, Cross Timbers, Rolling Plains, and the High Plains typically support more coyotes. These areas are home to many large ranching operations. Cattle production is generally cow-calf and seasonal stocker/yearling operations. Obviously, calving operations are more vulnerable to predation. Historically, cow-calf operators managed herds for early spring or fall calving during milder weather. Today, modern ranching operations vary in management strategies from seasonal to year round calving.

Coyotes preying on cattle generally attack newborn to 500 pound calves. However, most calves killed by coyotes are within the first few weeks of birth. Adult cows are occasionally killed or seriously damaged by coyotes during complications arising from calving. Problems associated with calving can hinder a cow's defense abilities (e.g., temporary paralysis), increasing vulnerability to predation. Livestock husbandry practices (e.g., close confinement during calving) have the potential to reduce coyote predation (Voigt and Berg 1987). However, practicality of range cattle management often precludes protection from predation (i.e., large pastures, remote areas).Prey selection

Factors that influence prey choice by predators are absolute abundance, relative abundance, and relative value of potential prey types (Estabrook and Dunham 1976, Windberg and Mitchell 1990). Winter calving, which usually occurs during normal declines of natural prey (i.e., late winter), increases vulnerability of calves to coyotes. Decreases in natural forage stress coyotes into alternate feeding patterns. Winter diet contains larger items such as deer (either prey or carrion), livestock carrion, or locally abundant lagomorph species (Voigt and Berg 1987). Extended winter stress periods place high nutritional demands on coyotes and often result in cattle depredation and carcass scavenging.

Predation losses are often highest in spring and summer correlating to pup-rearing. Pup-rearing may stimulates predation on larger prey during a time of high nutritional demands of adult and juvenile coyotes. In some instances, group behavior (i.e., pack formation) can be related to pup-rearing, predation on large prey that may require group hunting strategies, or defense of carrion (Camenzind 1978, Bowen 1981, Voigt and Berg 1987).

During whelping season, parents consume high protein food items which are returned to the pups and regurgitated for their consumption. In areas experiencing calf losses, body parts may be discovered at den sites. Such evidence is key to identifying and removing offending coyotes. High nutritional demands on coyotes during spring and summer pup-rearing normally coincide with the peak of natural prey availability (e.g., fawns, rodents). Additionally, cattle operations employing spring and summer calving schedules augment natural prey choices and scavenging opportunities through the calving process.

It is presumable that cattle may be a preferred prey choice by depredating coyotes as related to abundance, and reduced avoidance strategies common of domestic prey. In many situations, a depredated calf more efficiently feeds a coyote family, as compared to feeding on smaller prey. Additionally, the exploitation of larger prey animals decreases hunting and foraging intervals. Further, larger prey allow adult coyotes more time to safeguard pups and denning areas against threats.

Indirect influences

Because of the opportunistic behavior of coyotes, predation to cattle can occur year round. Predation by coyotes in a diverse prey community has not been evaluated in relation to fluctuations in abundance of prey (Windberg and Mitchell 1990). However, factors influencing natural prey availability other than weather (e.g., diseases to rodent populations and other decimating variables) are probable indirect influences contributing to livestock depredation in some circumstances.

Coyotes in certain situations can depend heavily on fruit production of native plants. Meinzer et al. (1974) evaluated the diet of coyotes in the Rolling Plains ecological area during 1971-73. They observed that fruits of native shrubs, as a group, were the coyote's major dietary item. They further concluded that coyote predation on cattle or calves might be a problem in years when high coyote density coincided with low native fruit production.

Undoubtedly, natural forage abundance and nutritional value can buffer or minimize livestock depredation. However, habitual livestock depredation by coyotes can be a specialized behavior that must be dealt with on an individual basis. Extreme livestock depredation situations (i.e., surplus killing) provide additional evidence of aberrant behavior that defy the norm. Although such behavior is more prevalent involving resources other than cattle (i.e., sheep and goat), evidence to support this behavior involving cattle has been observed.

Population dynamics and interactions

Much of what is known today about coyote populations and movement is due to research conducted within the past twenty-five years. Knowledge gained in studies during the 1970s has resulted in a much better understanding of the variability and adaptability of coyotes across North America (Voigt and Berg 1987). Population density, home range, dispersal and reproduction questions continue to be studied to refine damage management objectives. Social behavior and coyote demographics (specifically population age structure) have become key factors influencing damage management strategies for protecting cattle resources.

Observations across high coyote density areas of the High and Rolling Plains have revealed that middle (3 to 5 years old) and older (>5 years old) age classes of coyotes are primarily responsible for cattle depredations. This is further supported by examination of target coyotes removed from within and near areas of confirmed calf losses. Aerial hunting observations of coyotes attacking or consuming freshly killed calves are common. Further ground truth examination of stomach contents and aging by tooth wear (Gier 1957) corroborate age of offending coyotes. To simplify classification, age groupings of young (<3 years), middle age (3 to 5 years) and old (>5 years) are commonly used among management technicians.The size and weight of coyotes are commonly overestimated, perhaps because their long pelage masks a bone structure that is lighter than that of dogs (Voigt and Berg 1987). Adult coyotes normally weigh 20 to 35 pounds, with males usually about 4 pounds heavier than females (Gier 1968, Andrews and Boggess 1978, Berg and Chesness 1978, Todd 1978, Voigt and Berg 1987). Predation of large animals such as calves, often defended by aggressive cows, require considerable strength, agility and execution of skillful tactics. Coyotes that successfully prey on cattle have attained the necessary predatory prowess and strength through age.

Post-mortem examinations of fresh quarry often indicate masterful kills by coyotes that are much smaller than their prey. Subcutaneous hemorrhaging from attacks in the throat region is further evidence of kills made by experienced coyotes. In contrast, incidence of bobbed tails on calves and mutilation associated with inept, rear end attacks is often indicative of younger, inexperienced coyotes or domestic dogs. Such evidence is construed as an indicator of impending losses. Rampant occurrences may further indicate a maturing and threatening population of coyotes in problem areas.

Management Implications

Presuming that coyotes >3 years of age are responsible for most calf losses, it reasons that damage management objectives should initially focus control efforts toward middle- and older-aged coyotes. Control efforts that specifically target older coyotes in areas of calf losses have a demonstrated effectiveness of resolving conflicts. However, targeting and removing specific, offending coyotes can be challenging. In addition to aerial hunting, proper application of control methods that entice dominant behavioral responses has been used successfully.

Implementing general population suppression can assist long term damage management objectives. The removal of coyotes from high density problem areas can influence population dispersion. The dynamics of coyote populations depend on natality, mortality, emigration and immigration (Knowlton 1983, Voigt and Berg 1987). Dispersal is generally from high to low density areas but is complex (Davison 1980, Knowlton 1983, Voigt and Berg 1987). Knowlton (1972) suggests that dispersal of animals seeking to establish themselves in new areas is perhaps the most important movement pattern in management schemes. It is further stated that immigration (i.e., a one-way movement into an area) provides the mainspring for restocking where removal has been the primary objective of coyote management. Recurring control efforts that remove primarily subadult and young adult coyotes (<3 years of age) imply immigration by younger coyotes.Conclusions and Recommendations

It concludes that the older, more experienced segment of the coyote population is responsible for most calf losses. Therefore, losses may be significantly reduced by initially targeting those animals. A maintenance program of general population suppression which consequently influences dispersion of younger, less threatening coyotes into lower density areas is often necessary to ensure long term reductions of livestock losses.
Acknowledgments: I wish to thank Gene Miller (Texas Parks and

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob I hope you seen the figure of 106,400 head of cattle killed now before you jump and say aw alot is unfounded and not real killing, I will give you 80% Bogus in your mind I don't belive they would be off that much or that much faulty reporting but will work with that that still leaves 8,512 head dead from coyotes nation wide. That is giving you a bogus report base of 80%!!!!!

[bobwendt]

I`d say it is closer to 98% bogus . it did say that information was from a SURVEY, I presume a survey of ranchers, and we all know they will never accept blame for parasites, weather , poor feed , poor mamas or in fact basically anything at all. every dead calf is considered a coyote kill, even if he drowns the coyotes ran him onto the ice. now the sorry part, the wolves you speak of, they are goiung to be a real threat. I just hope they let you kill them or at least are lenient with letting w.s. shoot them. so far they have. and relax, the more coyotes you kill for whatever reasons, the better the world is. plus you can`t exterminate them , no harm done to the coyotes thru the big picture. go get `em. serious. but I don`t buy the calf killer status except so rare as to not be worth the efforts to control total populations of coyotes based on an occasional very very rare situation of the real calf killer types. lot of folks making a living off the coyotes back, me, you, w.s. and plenty more. its a good thing, not a bad thing.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob or anyone else go to this link to see loss and break down og cow/clad deaths for 05.
www.nass.usda.gov/wy/internet/livestock/cattleloss.pdf.

[bobwendt]

p.s. can anyone else see the pic, mine won`t come up. I like seeing coyotes in traps too, especially spring/summer coyotes. fwiw, I see about a dozen of my spring coyotes in the pee cages are close to whelping. put 2 in outside cages yesterday ,with nest boxes, and in the nick of time as I heard peep peep peep, coming from one box this morning. I only have 2 nest boxes total and reluctant to build more for pg coyotes. anyone close have a bunch of boxes laying around to sell or trade?

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob or anyone else go to this link to see loss and break down of cow/calf deaths for 05.
www.nass.usda.gov/wy/internet/livestock/cattleloss.pdf.

[bobwendt]

ok, ok

[trappnman]

I'd say it has to come down to what area you are in and the circumstances.

Here it is like Bob says- very, very seldom is there a problem with caving cows and coyotes. I had one area thats always good for fall cooytes that is right where the farm has his cattle calf. Many times I'd see a week old calf out of the fence, sleeping in the taller grass- and 100 feet away a coyote in a trap. Coyotes do make the farmers nervous, and I'll gladly take care of them if the want.

Probably comes down to available food.

As far as fawns, not a doubt in my mnd that coyotes are right up there in fawn mortality.

[Wiley]

Excellent posts 37! Very good representation of the truth and the facts.

Bob, you are just flat wrong on what you have stated regarding the legitimacy of coyotes killing calves.

I am in a very unique position to post the facts, not an opinion, on this issue. I have been in the cow/calf business my entire life and also happen to be an ADC trapper in one of the largest cattle producing areas, with coyotes, in this state. What 37 said was very true and very accurate.

Bob, I find your comments on this topic not only inaccurate but offensive and arrogant. I, and other ADC men like me, know the difference between a calf that was born dead and consumed by coyotes and a calf that was born then killed by coyotes. I don't play politics and I don't fudge numbers, I tell it like it is in any situation.

As 37 stated, there is definitely a difference between the number of calves killed each year and the number of sheep kills. Calves quickly outgrow most coyote predation and calving season quickly turns to denning season in most spring calving areas taking the coyote's attention off bothering cattle. As spring progresses, more natural food is also available.

At the peak of the coyote population in this 3 county area, I verified 52 calf kills. When I can't prove a coyote's innocense or guilt, I have no choice but to take the rancher at his word and work the complaint but I don't report a kill unless I can confirm it. In my case, I know I understate the numbers of calves killed because I don't report a calf kill unless I can prove it or am reasonably sure what happened. If I can't verify the kill, these complaints are considered "requests for service". Most calves killed by coyotes go unreported.

I have made some ranchers mad by proving a coyote innocent but I always tell them the truth if it can be proven either way. A friend of mine even had to call a veterinarian incorrect on an assumed mountain lion kill. I would have expected a higher level of professionalism from a large animal veterinarian.

There is many clues that are available to determine if a calf was killed by coyotes or if a calf was born dead than consumed by coyotes. First a dead calf does not bleed like a live calf. Secondly, a cow that has been battling with coyotes acts a lot different than a cow that had a dead calf and wandered off. The hair usually slips on a calf that was born dead. Limbs are usually loose and flexible on a calf that was live then killed as opposed to the stiff limbs on a calf that was born dead. The lungs of a dead calf are not filled with air. The cartilidge on the tip of a dead calves hooves is quickly scraped off during the calves initial struggles to get up. A dead calf does not nurse it's mother. A difficult birth often leaves the calves tongue swelled and the cow has a difficult time walking or getting up. Often times if it is difficult to tell, I will skin the animal and look for teeth marks and hemorraging.

There is a big difference between a calf that was born dead and a calf that was actually killed by coyotes if you know what to look for and I do. Please don't insult my intelligence or others like me by implying that we don't know the difference.

I too have experienced coyotes coming across a cow or heifer that has had a difficult time calving to the point of partial paralysis and had the coyotes literally eat the calf out of the cow and feed into the live cow. It's a gruesome sight.

I have witnessed calves killed by coyotes in the snow. I have had numerous ranchers actually see coyotes kill a calf. Had 3 ranchers gathering cattle this spring witness 3 coyotes kill a calf. They called a friend of mine who calls coyotes before calling me. He called in the three coyotes and shot the adult pair finding the black calf hide in the stomach of the adult male. Another calf kill that comes to mind is a second calf heifer that left her calf to go to water. Coyotes came across it, the calf jumped up and ran, the coyotes killed it and fed on it and I have the whole thing (scene in the snow) on video. As 37 has pointed out, many times coyotes kill calves INDIRECTLY when cows are fighting coyotes off and step on the calf. A sure sign of potential coyote problems with calves is when calves come in missing tails.

I have 4 really good friends (BH, DH, MH, & LD) who are all excellent coyote callers that have all had calves killed by coyotes and requested my services. I have been in coyote calling contests with all 4 of them. Why didn't they take care of their own problem? Because they were all too busy during the heart of calving and they knew that I would get the coyotes causing the problem as opposed to a wholesale slaughter.

Coyotes generally kill calves by grabbing them by the flank then feeding into their stomach to remove the colostrum. They usually do not kill calves by the throat like they do sheep.

When we aerial hunt in the month of March, we find 90% of the coyotes within 2 miles of the cattle. They are there for the colostrum manure, for the afterbirth (placentas) as 37 has stated, and for any dead calves or cows they can find.

As stated in the study, most coyotes that kill calves are mature adults and a lot of times they have yearling coyotes with them. Most calf complaints occur at the beginning of calving season. Less food is available then, less cows are on their guard, and they are not yet denning. Often times the ranchers that have the most problems are the first ranchers to calve in the area because the sounds and smells of calving pull the coyotes from surrounding areas like a magnet. Those that have the most coyote problems usually calve in rougher country allowing the coyotes to comfortably slip in and out of the calving pastures without being detected. Like a thief in the night.

As calving season progresses, more easier food is available for coyotes (colustrum calf manure, placentas, dead livestock, ect) and coyotes find those food sources easier than fighting with mother cows to get their calves. I have few repeat calf kills which is somewhat biased because I am usually quick to remove the problem coyotes. I have seen week old calves killed by coyotes. It's a rare group of coyotes that actually go into a full fledged calf killing mode but I have seen it a time or two. In one case they would run the calves over a creek bank and kill them. Coyotes killing calves seldom work alone.

Coyotes are always opportunistic. Some of the other situations I can think of is cows leaving their calves to go to feed and water, a set of twins both healthy, a cow that calves off by herself in rough country, a calf that slips through a fence and is not protected by her mother, a calf that falls over a creek bank and is not protected by her mother. An adverse weather situation which creates higher energy requirements and desperate situations for coyotes. Those are all opportunistic situations. At other times I have seen them fight with the cow to get the calf until they finally won out. Those cows are usually in a lathered frenzy when you find them.

Bob, don't open your mouth and give an opinion about something you don't know a damn thing about. This is one time where you are definitely in over your head. I don't know if you are really that biased, really that ignorant about this topic, or if you just like to push buttons. Only you know but you couldn't be more wrong.

Once again, good informative posts 37. Very accurate and mirrors my own experiences.

Bob, if you would like to debate the accuracy of this post, by all means, step up to the plate.

T'man, please archive this thread.


~SH~

[bobwendt]

I read about 1/2 way down and skipped the rest of your post wiley . the big fallacy is you are counting coyote kills for abandoned starving calves , or calves too weak to nurse from other factors. the coyotes kill the walking dead, that would die even if every coyote on earth did not exist. kill all the coyotes you want, no sweat off my back, and I like you doing it because it helps red fox, cats and other desirable game, but you can`t crap me on telling me coyotes kill healthy calves in enough numbers to warrent control work. no doubt it happens in very very rare occasions, but no more than that. I flat don`t believe you or the figures you throw up to justify your job. w.s. preforms a valuable service in sheep or goat country, but not cattle country.

[jeffc]

I would think that Kansas is in the top 5 cattle producing states and with a coyote behind every bush I wonder why we don't have those problems or Govt trappers?

Jeff