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Post by sbhooper on Feb 25, 2006 13:11:29 GMT -6
We are stuck in an ever-enlarging global economy. There is no way around it and it is not even worth arguing about. Due to labor issues, the US has priced itself out of the labor market. Unfortuneately, much of the american-made stuff is not real good either. Like someone said in another post-who buys most of the fur we catch in the foreign-made traps? The foreign companies do. All traps work well and it is just like vehicles in that it comes down to personal choice. Virtually all of the so-called American-made cars have wiring harnesses and other parts that are made in Mexico. Toyota makes lots of vehicles at American plants tolerating American labor laws.
I have Duke traps and I have Montanas. Both work well, but the Montanas are made of better materials and are better designed and so they are my preference for coyotes and cats. The Dukes are great, especially for coons etc.
Use what fits your pocketbook and your trap line.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 25, 2006 14:06:26 GMT -6
I believe both duke and montanas are foreign made, not just duke. the only american made traps are victor and bmi and the limited edition ones like j.c. conners, sterlings etc.
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Post by psb1011 on Feb 25, 2006 14:34:29 GMT -6
Although I don't use them,SleepyCreeks are made in West Virginia.
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Post by NittanyLion on Feb 25, 2006 14:52:04 GMT -6
T-man wrote, "Lets not confuse A with O again.Reason most "big numbers" coyote men don't use small traps is simple- they are running extended checks- sometimes a week or more." Never knew that, you mean to tell me there are some trappers that only check their traps every 7 days or so? That ain't right.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 25, 2006 15:05:57 GMT -6
yes, some do 7 day cks or even longer, several on this forum even. there is one big name western trapper that has preached 7 day runs for as long as I can remember ,and instructed many many trappers over the years ,that have bought into this 7 day deal. I fail to see what difference trap ck. time has to do with trap size however. believe me, after a day or three a coyotes steam is gone. if he can`t brute his way out in the first day, his chances of escape from power go to nil. the offsets and wide jaws on larger traps do however help prevent cutting and broken bones, so those do lower the escape %s from de-footing on those 7 day cks. fwiw, I`m a 24 hr man, as are the vast majority of trappers, by law or self imposition.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 25, 2006 16:32:56 GMT -6
no problem if you can do your thing 60 times in a row. once, big problem
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Post by Jeffrey on Feb 25, 2006 17:54:53 GMT -6
I guess walkercoonhunter and trappnman are right, I work in a factory where we sell 99% of our products over seas, and most off the steel we use is imported, because we can't buy US steel. So I guess I shouldn't be hung up on made in Korea, because the competition should make them all better in the end. I know in my industry if we done make the most cost effective equipment then we loose orders to other companies, that life, so we are constantly improving.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 25, 2006 19:07:45 GMT -6
thing is- I'll bet those DVDs were filmed with a non US camera, formatted the same, if you drive ford or Chevy- as many foreign parts as US made parts.
Not saying its good or bad. Plus, what about all the US made products..that are done in foreign owned factories- more then most think. Something else- transportation- the union pacific isn't American owned, its Canadian owned.
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Post by Muskratman1 on Feb 25, 2006 19:33:11 GMT -6
My Duke 1.75's have served me very well in this pet infested area of Southern MI. and that's exactly why I bought and used them here. Nil for damage on pets and still held Fox and Coyotes just fine.
I run mostly Duke Coni's as well and except for intsalling a bolt in a few of the 220 triggers because the rivets popped, they do the job too.
MM1
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Post by k9 on Feb 25, 2006 21:21:19 GMT -6
You are probably right Bob on the Duke 1 3/4's with the extended checks. Most of my coyotes are caught pretty solid on the paw, so I suppose they would stay there for as long as I wanted them to.
That is with a short chain hook up.
I think you start extending chains and you may have whole new set of problems as far as power outs is concerned, however I suppose the western boys who use the extended checks would have a worn out coyote as you described who if he didn't get out on day one or two, would probably still be there once the trap is settled on his foot.
I just got rid of my full size Chevy and went to a Toyota truck. Just can't pass up the quality.
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Post by psb1011 on Feb 26, 2006 13:35:08 GMT -6
Around here ive got to compete agianst the amish worker,and they work cheap,and pay no SS.Now the mexicans are taking over the concrete trades.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 26, 2006 13:52:46 GMT -6
lol, I have to compete against anglo white male american trappers selling live coyotes and fox as low as $20 each. I can out trap them, out quality them , everything but out cheap them. these a.w.a.a.t.`s work cheaper than any amish or mexican, in fact they work at a loss, so dang well don`t pay taxes or s.s. guess I`ll just have to gut shoot them all under cut banks and then blast the bank.
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Post by k9 on Feb 26, 2006 15:22:53 GMT -6
"a.w.a.a.t.`s"
lmfao
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Post by MRussell on Feb 26, 2006 19:08:42 GMT -6
IT seems that very few people have any sympathy or empathy for the true endangered species Bernie(until it hits home). I work with tools on a daily basis and some people like me will buy the best. Others justify why their low priced(price and quality are closely related) tools are the way to go. I don't fuss with the them at all. They have their mind made up. Besides at what point does a person go full speed ahead? Only evil people go full speed ahead when they think or know that they are wrong.I have met very very very few evil people. I have come to the conclusion that views will vary greatly among folk when it comes to tools of a trade and getting someone to change(which in a way is admitting they are wrong) is something that the average person won't see much of.I don't mind goods from Country's that have a standard of living similar to ours. IF a Duke trap fits the need for the end user then so be it.
MR
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Post by dj88ryr on Feb 26, 2006 20:35:10 GMT -6
Good post Monte, kind of puts a lot of possible arguements in perspective....
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Post by thefoxtrapper on Feb 26, 2006 21:11:46 GMT -6
most traps need a little tinkering but not much, duke have outstanding traps for my needs, i knock the fur in the ground, and i use a lot of duke traps, bridger is my next big trap of choice, a few oddballs after that, like vic #14s, b@l #1 longs, etc., its all what the trapper makes of the set, learn the tool and the trade and you will excel, otherwise you will fail, mars
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Post by gunner on Feb 26, 2006 22:14:53 GMT -6
Been watching this post for awhile...it HAS JUST GOT TO BE THE BEST FREE ADVERTISING DUKES COULD GET ...and they say any print IS GOOD ADVERTISING!!!!
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 27, 2006 6:24:47 GMT -6
had a lot of Dukes run over by tractors, saee no difference in the % of them that can be reused as Victor. 90% of the 1.75s run over can be reset immediately.
Maineman, would like to know what modifications you tihnk are needed to improve my trapping with the Dukes. I've use 1.5s for over 2 decades on rats, mink and coon and the 1.75 for the same on cooytes, and except for the dog modfication, see nothing I need to modify to improve my success. But would be interested in your thoughts.
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Post by Maineman on Feb 27, 2006 16:05:38 GMT -6
Maineman, would like to know what modifications you tihnk are needed to improve my trapping with the Dukes. I've use 1.5s for over 2 decades on rats, mink and coon and the 1.75 for the same on cooytes, and except for the dog modfication, see nothing I need to modify to improve my success. But would be interested in your thoughts. Steve, What you do with your traps is your business, nor did I ever say that modifying a trap would improve your trapping …My comments were more geared to land trapping but equally apply to the water…If your asking if I think a modified trap of any make is a more efficient, better working trap than a non-modified trap ? I think most trappers would not debate that… - Adding an extra swivel aids in holding twisting animals
- Laminating jaws reduce damage
- Leveling the pan (enough said)
- Night latching (while not a necessity) provides consistently
- Bending the jaw tips up helps reduce jaw pops
- shortening the chain is a personal choice but IMO also improves holding, and makes bedding easier.
Can someone catch fur with an unmodified trap? Sure...You can catch fur in an unbaited dirthole as well...Use what works best for ya...I like modified trap and feel they give a trapper the best oppportunity to catch and hold target animals on most situations better than setting traps directly out of the box...
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Post by trappnman on Feb 27, 2006 16:17:07 GMT -6
Actually, I don't believe they apply equally to the water.... just debating, not ponticifying....
and keep in mind, I'm talking Duke 1.5s here...
1) short chains on drowning, no need for extra swivels. Same on dragged coon. 2) I actually think lamination on a coon trap, REDUCES catch #s, esp in water on coon. 3) pan- high, low, never found it matter at all- in fact, used the 1.5s for many years, and didn't even realize many were upset about the high pan, didn't even notice it till TuRTle called it to my attention. Still couldn't care- I use both new and old style equally and with the same results. 4) never had a Duke 1.5 OR a 1.75 have a jaw pop 5) I DO like short chains and a crisp drop
Actually, I prefer unlaminated on the 1.5 on land also- for the simple reason I want the thin jaws..for coon.
I believe I've only caught...MAYBE....12-15 fox lifetime in 1.5 and most of those greys. so can't comment on fox in them. But for mink, rats, coon- I'll take unlaminated.
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