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issues
Aug 19, 2016 10:03:51 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 19, 2016 10:03:51 GMT -6
redsnow, and others, lets take a serious look at the issues.
if issues are the election- lets look at them.
what positions and programs held by Trump, do you support?
his views on the nuclear triad?
his views on debt and bankruptcy?
his views on women and minorities?
building a wall and deporting 11 million people?
cutting taxes on the wealthy?
carpet bombing the Mideast?
threating violence to those that oppose him?
increasing the debt? (he said in past few days- time for the US to borrow more money at low rates)
his statement he wouldn't listen to the Intelligence community and knows more than the generals do?
his statement that anyone not releasing his taxes would be an automatic disqualification to run for president, yet he refuses to release his?
He says hes going to be amazing, that only he can save the country- my question is, based on the issues, how?
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issues
Aug 20, 2016 11:48:46 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 20, 2016 11:48:46 GMT -6
Those aren't issues but left basis talking points of distraction.
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issues
Aug 20, 2016 11:54:43 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 20, 2016 11:54:43 GMT -6
Ok I will play along on the few serious ones, lowering taxes on the wealthy is the reverse of Hillary slamming it to the so called wealthy. The wealthy are job creators, I could give many examples of why increasing taxes further would be a bad idea and how it has been such from the past, I will sum it up really quick, if employees get too expensive then they are replaced by automation, which needs no benefits, gets no sick leave and can do the job exactly the same each and every time.
again we tried to talk about this before, how ,any making under 100,000 actually pay into the federal govt at years end? To think the middle class is the major tax payer in this country is laughable, the top 3 percent pay in a very large chunk. Those are the facts. The bottom 30-35 pay in nothing Nadda zero.We cannot have a country where the top 3-5 percent pay in 50-60 percent of the taxes , then we wonder why our debt is at 20 trillion and counting?
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 7:00:57 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 21, 2016 7:00:57 GMT -6
sorry- I meant facts- so this thread isn't really for you
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 7:15:42 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2016 7:15:42 GMT -6
Funny facts change depending on ones BIAS we have clearly seen that in the past. The fact is the lower 1/3rd is not paying to run this country, the people making less than 160,000 with defendants are not paying to run this country, it is the top 3-5 percent in varying taxes that are laying to run this country, denying such is well non factual. Here is a very well laid out factual document on taxation in the US. www.netadvisor.org/2012/02/09/fact-check-who-really-pays-most-of-u-s-taxes/#.V7momXg8KrU
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 7:22:41 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2016 7:22:41 GMT -6
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 9:01:45 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 21, 2016 9:01:45 GMT -6
trickle down economics- yeah, that works-
the Tax Foundation, a RIGHT WING think tank, states in a report released Tuesday: "Trumps tax plan, if implemented, would result in a 14.6% increase in after tax income for highest earning 10% of Americans, the top 1% would see a 21% increase in after tax income. (a cut that deep would be worth millions to trump) while the lowest earning 10% would see increases of 1.6%, and the next 10% of wage earners would see a 0.6% increase. this would lead to a 10 trillion decrease in revenues for the country, increasing the national debt"
Trump talks about the death tax and saving small business or farms- and never a case on record of a farm being lost to the estate tax- when the truth is, an estate has to be over a billion, to even have the tax go into effect- but eliminating it- saves the Trump family $4 billion dollars.
his tax plan is a joke- if you think the wealthy are paying too much, then you do-
if you think trickle down worked- then you do
I don't and the facts back me up
so this issue decided- you believe in cutting taxes to the wealthy, and trickle down.
and I do not. History has shown what the Bush cuts to the wealthy did- you can stick your head in the sand all day, I choose not to next?
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 17:44:25 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2016 17:44:25 GMT -6
Tman the numbers are from CBO not some think tank.LOL. Easy to pass off the facts by saying it was written from a BIAS source using govt numbers. Even NBC showed exactly where you could find the facts.
Yep the rich will get all the breaks and the debt will rise, how has Obama handled adding to the debt with higher taxes?
We raise money from taxes by having prosperity that is the fact pure and simple, if you tax the employers more and more and the economy stays the same their is no increase in revenues, again fact. We blacked the budget under Clinton for the reasons we have talked about in the past the darn Internet boom. People went from making 50,000-150,000 in no time, millionaires invested and became billionaires and all the while money was flowing in the country from top to bottom, higher tax rates where felt less because of dramatic increased earnings and revenues for millions and millions of people. The facts!
We do not have the Internet boom anymore, we need job creations and we do that by allowing business to have a better climate to do so and to take risk. Again I know you won't look but the states that have performed the best durring these recession years are the states that have lower taxes and far better business climates, again these are not guesses these are facts pure and simple.
Taxing people more when the economy is off, will never result in a revenue surplus, as the sales drop off the less taxes collect all the way around.mtrickle down works has and will continue to do so in a fee economy, turn your blinders on and keep telling yourself different and slinging to occupy democrat website. If you wish.
States complete every day for business as well as cities, it becomes more important as we have lost a lot of manufacturing because si ply the cost of doing business here gets too high, those that can control cost better and have less federal over site are the ones still making products here in the US.
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 17:46:13 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2016 17:46:13 GMT -6
Many people received a tax cut under George bush those are the facts, the wealthy are paying the bulk of the taxes to ignore or deny that is simply NOT the truth.
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 19:50:21 GMT -6
Post by James on Aug 21, 2016 19:50:21 GMT -6
Of course the wealthy are paying more than their share of taxes. They have most of the money and assets in this country.
The bottom one-third you keep talking about don't have any money. How are you going to get taxes from them?
It's just another GOP excuse for helping the wealthy.
Jim
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issues
Aug 21, 2016 23:42:05 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Aug 21, 2016 23:42:05 GMT -6
"We cannot have a country where the top 3-5 percent pay in 50-60 percent of the taxes"TC You seem to be talking strictly income taxes. Where the Uber rich make their money is from capital gains. They're making money from money, NOT being job creators. Not so hard to do when you've inherited wealth like Trump and Romney. Romney was a good example. Instead of being a job creator he and his buddies specialized in buying companies and closing them down, losing jobs. "Bain Capital spent $24.5 million to acquire GS Industries in 1993, according to an investment prospectus for the company. By the end of that decade, Bain Capital estimated its partners had made $58.4 million off its investment. During that time, the steel manufacturer cut more than 1,750 jobs, shuttered a division that had been around for 100 years and eventually sank into bankruptcy." I've been to Georgetown many times and losing 1750 jobs in SC was a BIG deal. Hard to owe income taxes when you lose a job. www.cnbc.com/2015/04/09/where-the-rich-make-their-income.html"the wealthy are paying the bulk of the taxes.." Doesn't it make sense that the people that have the most money pay the most taxes?? The 1 percent has 35.6 percent of all private wealth, more than the bottom 95 percent combined. ... on the Forbes 400 list have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans. In 2010, 25 of the 100 largest U.S. companies paid their CEO more than they paid in U.S. taxes. This is largely because corporations in the global 1 percent use off shore tax havens to dodge their U.S. taxes. Between 1983 and 2009, over 40 percent of all wealth gains flowed to the 1 percent and 82 percent of wealth gains went to the top 5 percent. The bottom 60 percent lost wealth over this same period. The world’s 1 percent, almost entirely billionaires, own $42.7 trillion dollars, more than the bottom 3 billion residents of earth. Between 2001 and 2010, the United States borrowed over $1 trillion to give wealthy taxpayers with incomes over $250,000 substantial tax breaks, including the 2001 Bush era tax cuts.Pam
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 4:38:49 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 4:38:49 GMT -6
Jim yes I get that and that is why we have a the tax system we do, but when people like Tman and others state the wealthy are not paying enough taxes, or the good one buffets secretary paid in more than he did, pure BS. It has been a left montra for years and years , sock it too the rich. The problem being what some define as "rich" and how high can we go with the tax rates? Again no country has ever taxed itself into prosperity.
Pam, you can believe your numbers if you would like. Class war fair is a key strategy for the left, has been again for many years , but the very policies the left brings up and passes into laws are not about bringing people up the food chain, the are about sustaining just what many have now. Again no country has ever taxed its way into prosperity, you do that through job creation and growth of business.
Pam it is niot about loosing a job the tax system is setup for the rich to already pay the most, at least some are now willing to admit yes the rich do Pay the majority of the tax burden in this country.
We also have super high capital,gains taxes as well. There is short term and long term capital,gains. Even off shore accounts have to be on your tax return or if the IRS doesn't know about it you could be in some big trouble.
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 7:31:27 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 22, 2016 7:31:27 GMT -6
if anyone thinks that the wealthy, are paying the same tax rates as the middle class does- you are an idiot.
sorry to be so blunt- but no other word for it.
ask yourself WHY the wealthy class doesn't want a flat tax
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 18:56:10 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 18:56:10 GMT -6
Tman if you think middle Americans pay the bulk of the taxes given the tax structure it is today and what one gets for deductions sorry but then others are idiots to think so.
Again the CBO stated the breakdown from the IRS as to percentages of taxes paid, yet you went on by it or thought the CBO is not factual?
Again tell me what middle income American pays on avg in federal income tax on wages earned each year? The majority get a refund not a balance of zero either way or pay into in a plus way. Those are the facts from the CBO and the IRS.
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 18:59:53 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 18:59:53 GMT -6
A flat tax would have to be worked out, what does it include just personnel,income? What about business tax? To think a flat tax of say 11.5 percent is that net or gross? Is that on all things deemed income? Or just personnel income? So the guy that makes 60,000 a year in Wages then pays in 6,900 per year, how many who make 60,000 are paying that into the federal govt now each year? The true and factual answe would be zero, Nadda none. Willing to bet that would be an major increase for many per year. Do you agree?
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 22:41:49 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Aug 22, 2016 22:41:49 GMT -6
I think one of the first things that needs to be reviewed and quickly and in earnest is to actually decide how big or large or small whatever we want our government(s) to be and that means looking at all the programs, subsidies, etc. Once we have a consensus on the size of our government and the funds needed we can then look at how to fund the expenditure(s). If we spend 3.7 trillion and take in 2 trillion in tax collections we have to decide how to increase revenue or cut spending or more likely both. Yes the wealthy pay the major portion of the income taxes as with a progressive system with limited middle class income increases that is the only place it can come from currently and most likely in the future regardless of the system that is used. If we want to pay off 19 trillion in debt it will be the wealthy that will have to do that unless we create say 50 million jobs in the next 20 years that pay say a $1,000 per week or more. If you don't like debt then borrow the money if you don't like taxes. We could shut down every progressive program the conservatives feel that the liberals want and the taxes needed to cover the deficit and the debt would be much higher than it is currently unless we want to get on the 100 year payment plan. The funny thing is, that if you are wealthy by that I say assets of say multi millions or more much of that investment is in money lent to the US government as that is considered a safe investment and those with very high asset levels want security more than growth. So many that are harping about debt are the ones that are benefiting by the debt. Not unlike those businesses that vote against immigration issues yet hire large numbers of illegal workers, or farmers with millions of acres of CRP land and crop land using tax payer income to subsidize their investments in land.
Bryce
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issues
Aug 22, 2016 23:54:08 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Aug 22, 2016 23:54:08 GMT -6
"..yes the rich do Pay the majority of the tax burden in this country. " No one is arguing they don't pay the majority of taxes or, that the middle class does. Taxes on $50,000 better be lower than taxes on $5,000,000. They make more, they pay more. How hard is that to fathom? When a business is so big it pays it's CEO more than it pays in taxes, something's not right. When CEOs earn around 204 times what his or her median worker earns, something's not right. nypost.com/2015/08/25/chipotle-cvs-and-discovery-have-highest-ceo-pay-gap/How can anyone not plainly see that the rich have been getting richer and the middle class is going down. Argue the point or not, unions helped create the middle class. If the Repubs have their way the unions will be a thing of the past and low wages and no benefits will wipe the middle class out. If and when that happens companies will be in big trouble. Pam
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issues
Aug 23, 2016 4:49:29 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2016 4:49:29 GMT -6
Pam unions have nothing to do with anything in this day and age besides rising cost of goods and services. Global economy Pam, we no longer manufacture a large portion of our goods in this country the cost to do so and compete is not good.
We all notice the cost of goods rising on everything, we need job growth and creation and what sectors will this come from? In the mean time we cannot keep spending like it is the 80's or 90's . A balanced budget is what we need . Dollar in dollar out . Not 1 dollar in 5 dollars out.
Pam the so called rich will always have money , the old saga the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, look at the programs in place and we can see why the poor get poorer. We need to be accountable on spending and we need to focus on jobs not more programs. Programs will never create jobs or prosperity just keep people doing the same each day. Job growth is done by small and large business, we keep taxing them more and more your going to have less and less business activity.
What good is tax revenue if the business closes its doors? Global economy..........................
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issues
Aug 23, 2016 8:55:12 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2016 8:55:12 GMT -6
I simply cannot understand TC, why you have zero reading comprehension.
you constantly take a statement- and turn it 180 from the truth, and then one needs to spend way too much time, TRYING to get you to understand simple concepts.
do you understand, truly understand, the meaning of tax percentage?
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issues
Aug 23, 2016 17:40:13 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2016 17:40:13 GMT -6
Tax percentage means nothing, smoke and mirrors. Look at the personnel,income tax rates it is progressive the more you make the more you pay, many taxes are setup as such, if your getting earned income credits your getting back 3-7 times what you have paid in so you pay in nothing. The others peoples taxes paid in go to,pay for the earned income credits, on top of everything else.
Out of all of those in this discussion you are now the only one not in agreement that the so called rich pay the bulk of all federal taxes in this country. It is easy math and was given out again by the CBO and the IRS, yet you still want to believe they pay less of the total than other income brackets so be it, just not the facts.
Again having high taxes on the upper 1/3 rd of income producers in this country helps out exactly how? Again you will bpnever tax your way into a prosperous nation not going to happen, the only way taxes increase is through natural means, that is more jobs and business making more money. Taking X amount form a fixed source and adding to it to cover cost can only add to, less tax revenue over time, less job creation and higher input cost.
Remember most business relies on a 10-15 percent margin after all things are paid, uncontrollable cost like materials, fuels and utilities are a burden on any business along with workers comp insurance and other liabilities, start adding to the cost on many of these business and you will have less jobs or more closures on business. Again we are not talking major corps but they are in play , just not like small business.
Hard to get people to,buy into business start ups with a margin of 3-5 percent when all said and done. That is a net loss of jobs and revenue floating around the economy.
But man we are sticking it to the rich now. I could care less what some guy makes on Wall Street as long as our assets are making money and the stock alert is doing well. That is how a free economy works, bad markets mean less consumer confidence and less spending.
Unless we want everyone to be like the federal govt and just keep charging on a tab? At some point the tab will be called in then what?
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