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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 25, 2016 17:12:27 GMT -6
Tman so sick of hearing about oil companies and profits, business is in business to make money. What do you think their profits are when gas is 1.99- 2.15 a gallon versus 3.25? Their input cost do not change just the price of crude on the open market. Also ever price how much a refinery cost to build in the US today? That never gets mentioned when some talk profits. Plus upkeep and maintenance.
Bryce asked Toyota about the cell life and warranty and they stated 5-6 years is avg without a loss of energy after that they tail off, the guy was honest. Where do you think all that lead come from to make batteries? Why does a car battery cost 100.00 today?
A coal plant is far cheaper to build than a natural gas plant, over time depending on location and price of either can make a difference in KWh cost to consumers.
Reds now here is the problem with Nuclear power, everyone thinks it is a great idea but no one wants the nuclear plant in their neighborhood. We here all the talk about this energy source until it comes time to place it. Then people are all up in arms and picketing against them going in. In this country will be a very long time before one would ever see wide use of nuclear energy. Specially with all the young "earth" lovers we have today. Their thinking is they do not like us using fossil fuels or coal but do not like any other options so far to date either, silly really.
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Post by redsnow on Aug 25, 2016 18:51:29 GMT -6
Oh, I agree.
There were months and months of folks bee itching about the wind turbines, created a bunch of good jobs locally. Now it's done for the time being.
Just my opinion, wind power will never replace the energy we use every day. And I really don't think that anything in the near future will replace the gas engine.
I have no idea how many millions of barrels of gasoline we burn here in the USA alone each day. A bunch!
Nuclear power is, just my opinion, about our only option. And it's been around a while, safer today. Don't want the kids growing 3 legs or anything. lol
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Post by trappnman on Aug 26, 2016 6:02:47 GMT -6
I got a nuke plant down the road from me- I'm not scared of boogymen so TC- since you are a defender of big oil- do you support the subsidies they get? or are record profits, and record tax breaks- ok by you?
wow.
and food stamps get you riled.
go figure
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Post by trappnman on Aug 26, 2016 6:04:42 GMT -6
Wind power in the United States is a branch of the energy industry, that has expanded quickly over the last several years.[1] As of the end of 2015 the U.S. nameplate generating capacity for wind power was nearly 75,000 megawatts (MW).[2] This capacity is exceeded only by China and the European Union.[3] Thus far, wind power's largest growth in capacity was in 2012, when 11,895 MW of wind power was installed, representing 26.5% of new power capacity. The U.S. wind industry has had an average annual growth of 25.8% over the last 10 years (beginning of 2005-end of 2014).[1]
For calendar year 2014, the electricity produced from wind power in the United States amounted to 181.79 terawatt-hours, or 4.44% of all generated electrical energy. Sixteen states have installed over 1,000 MW of wind power capacity with Michigan just breaking the mark in the 4th quarter of 2013.[4] Texas, with 14,098 MW of capacity, had the most installed wind power capacity of any U.S. state at the end of 2014, and also had more under construction than any other state currently has installed.[1] The Alta Wind Energy Center in California is the largest wind farm in the United States with a capacity of 1320 MW.[5] GE Energy is the largest domestic wind turbine manufacturer.[6]
not bad for a startup industry. building more and more of them around here
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Post by bblwi on Aug 26, 2016 7:48:00 GMT -6
That increase even with very low fossil fuel prices for much of the time. It is the huge fluctuation in oil prices that most want to move away from. We here all the subsidy cries from the naysayers regarding the new energy initiatives and most forget that the oil industry has had the blessing of a 22% depletion allowance for decades. Not bad to get an extra 22% off your profits by just using and selling your crude. That 22% is there at $20 per barrel and at $120 per barrel.
Bryce
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Post by redsnow on Aug 26, 2016 12:38:47 GMT -6
Well, I'm all for new clean energy, but I look at that 4.44% of total electric generated, from wind power. Tinker around for 10 years, and still less than 5 percent. I guess that's a start, but still means 95 homes out of a hundred get their electricity from other means.
Hydro power is nice, but we can't build a river everyplace that we need one!
Our energy needs, just can't be met by wind or hydro power.
A while back I drove out across the Allegheny Mountains, just west of here, and there were several wind turbines, dead stopped. Those machines aren't that old. Kind of makes me wonder if they're going to pay off. Wonder what the annual maintenance cost would be for a windmill 300 feet tall? Wonder how long that machine will hold up, out in the weather? Freeze and thaw, get iced up, etc. That's gotta put quite a strain on the workings.
Not sure? But, my opinion wind power will never make a dent in our power needs. Solar power is even worse. Not during our lifetimes anyway.
I'd have no objection to a nuclear power plant nearby. But you know how some folks are. Some folks will object to anything.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 26, 2016 19:27:00 GMT -6
Tman start up industry? Are you kidding me?
History of Wind Energy The wind has played a long and important role in the history of human civilization. The first known use of wind dates back 5,000 years to Egypt, where boats used sails to travel from shore to shore. The first true windmill, a machine with vanes attached to an axis to produce circular motion, may have been built as early as 2000 B.C. in ancient Babylon. By the 10th century A.D., windmills with wind-catching surfaces as long as 16 feet and as high as 30 feet were grinding grain in the area now known as eastern Iran and Afghanistan.
The western world discovered the windmill much later. The earliest written references to working wind machines date from the 12th century. These too were used for milling grain. It was not until a few hundred years later that windmills were modified to pump water and reclaim much of Holland from the sea.
The familiar multi-vane “farm windmill” of the American Midwest and West was invented in the United States during the latter half of the l9th century. In 1889 there were 77 windmill factories in the United States, and by the turn of the century, windmills had become a major American export. Until the diesel engine came along, many transcontinental rail routes in the U.S. depended on large multi-vane windmills to pump water for steam locomotives.
Farm windmills are still being produced and used, though in reduced numbers, and show no sign of becoming obsolete. They are best suited for pumping ground water in small quantities to livestock water tanks. Without the water supplied by the multi-vane windmill, beef production over large areas of the West would not be possible.
In the 1930s and 1940s, hundreds of thousands of electricity producing wind turbines were built in the U.S. They had two or three thin blades which rotated at high speeds to drive electrical generators. These wind turbines provided electricity to farms beyond the reach of power lines and were typically used to charge storage batteries, operate radio receivers and power a light bulb or two. By the early 1950s, however, the extension of the central power grid to nearly every American household, via the Rural Electrification Administration, eliminated the market for these machines. Wind turbine development lay nearly dormant for the next 20 years.
Following the OPEC Oil Embargo of 1973, interest in wind energy resurfaced in response to climbing energy prices and questionable availability of conventional fuels. Federal and state tax incentives and aggressive government research programs triggered the development and use of many new wind turbine designs. Some experimental models were very large. With a blade diameter of 300 feet, a single machine was able to supply enough electricity for 700 homes. A wide variety of small-scale models also became available for home, farm and remote uses.
In the 1970s there were nearly 50 domestic wind turbine manufacturers. Since then, the wind industry has undergone massive consolidation, resulting in less than a dozen domestic manufacturers in 1997. Roughly half of these deal exclusively with small-scale models. This consolidation followed the expiration of the tax incentives in the mid-1980s and the easing of the energy crisis, both of which reduced market demand. A competitive marketplace to weed out inferior products further contributed to consolidation.
Meanwhile, a new market for wind systems, “wind farms,” began in the early 1980s. This market evolved thanks in part to a new Federal law, the Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act of 1978. This legislation requires utilities to buy electricity from private, non-utility individuals and developers. California has been home to most wind farm development due to very attractive electricity buy-back rates and the availability of windy, sparsely populated mountain passes. As of 1997, nearly 2% of California’s electricity is generated by the wind. As the cost of the technology has continued to decline, other areas of the country, namely the Great Plains, Pacific Northwest and Northeast, are now beginning to see greater wind farm development.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 26, 2016 19:28:43 GMT -6
By the way GE sucks. Would never by a GE product ever again in my life.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 26, 2016 19:36:32 GMT -6
Bryce flucarions happen in All commodities you know that! It is a boon doggie to bad mouth fossil fuels and charge them major fees and yet have nothing else in all reality to replace it, so we use it by far more than anything and then tell people because we do use it and we have nothing better we are going to fine you for using it.
That is what tier 4 compliant was all about from the get go. Mean while countries like Chine,Japan, India, Russia all use older model diesels and gasoline engines and lay no compliant factor money. It hurts ONLY US production .
If we are REALLY serious about global warming we take a hard stance on these counties and tell them zero imports unless you all become tier 4 compliant and a g 30 MPG with gas engines in all autos.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 26, 2016 20:26:01 GMT -6
Yes commodities do cycle and one of the ways to reduce that fluctuation is to research new alternatives and that is what is being done with energy and a lot of other commodity items. Firms with very narrow margins are the ones that will benefit the most from more stable sources of energy and or other commodities.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 27, 2016 6:26:36 GMT -6
Provided the new sources are not far more expensive than the old ones, or those with narrow margins do not win form this search.
Today it is still fossil fuels that give us the best bang for the buck. Has been that way for many many years.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 27, 2016 8:02:03 GMT -6
The first known use of wind dates back 5,000 years to Egypt
what more can one say?
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Post by bblwi on Aug 27, 2016 11:39:05 GMT -6
The new sources of energy are most likely going to be more expensive than current costs and the flexing of the fossil fuels shows that the need to find other sources is important for the world in new job creation. $4.00 gas causes much economic down turn in the USA and it is now apparent that $2.25 gas causes the economy to slow more than hoped for too. So if the real good price for gas is say$2.75 to $3.00 then finding an alternative for the small amount of time gas sells in that price range is important. Also new places to get oil and large fields of oil like off the coast of Brazil and other areas have costs that are in the $130-$200 per barrel range so that to me means that finding alternative sources will be costly yes but not in relation to new oil field expansion.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 28, 2016 6:19:14 GMT -6
Tman you where the one calling wind a start up industry ! LOL.
You see I have zero problem with wind, will it replace fossil fuels? No way. For many reasons some it it the anti wind crowd, others are cost to get to a main line in some areas of the country and then others are land owners themselves. We have a large wind bank that wants to go in 35 miles Norht of hear, problem is you drive along the highways and you have signs that are pro wind and those that are anti wind, my guess is the pro winders are the ones who will get paid from the turbines being placed on their lands and the anti winders are the ones who will not have a single turbine on their land LOL.
So we shall see how many years it takes for this to be up and running and adding to the main line of electricity. That happens a lot, people remember the trans Canadian pipeline?
Yep still unbuilt today due to anti sentiment from top to bottom.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 28, 2016 11:46:11 GMT -6
We lack patience for sure it took humans 500k years to get an internal combustion engine so yes it will take a few years or decades and or a generation or so to have really new bold technology but it will happen for sure. A lot of this argument is based on if one is looking at the price of something today and tomorrow compared to a year ago or 30 years ago instead of what the costs may be 20 years, 50 years or a 100 years from now. We also need to get a handle on the fact that if birthrates continue as they are for say even 100 years then 15 billion people on the Earth is likely. There may need to be some real adjustments in planning if that is a possibility or a real continued emphasis on new technologies in all commodities and just special considerations and waste product handling.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 28, 2016 19:09:43 GMT -6
Bryce yet until we find such that may take many,many years we will continue to sin tax business on fossil fuels? That makes little sense to me.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2016 6:25:37 GMT -6
Tman you where the one calling wind a start up industry ! LOL. see Bryces post- I can see I need to post in details Beetle Baily will get (I understand poor Sarge now) Wind, as a energy source for electrical power, is a fledgling industry here it is for you, in animated form.... energy.gov/articles/wind-farm-growth-through-years#buttn
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Post by bblwi on Aug 30, 2016 13:53:09 GMT -6
Sin taxes on fossil fuels are mostly used to build the road infrastructure that single passenger and 18 wheeler vehicles travel to and from. Sure would not be fun to drive on roads that are never updated or improved. One can sure tell the living places of people have changed over 30 years. Now days in the major metro areas the traffic in the AM going out is about equal to that going in and vice versa in the PM which tells us more people have moved further away from the hubs of large metros and the doughnut rings are still growing. As those available acres disappear or families decide to not travel as far alternative transportation systems will be invented. As to the sin tax it goes down a lot if I buy a hybrid that gets 46 instead of 23 as I now spread my tax over twice the miles. One of the reasons that roads are declining in condition is better mpg and hybrids and there is not enough revenue to keep up with the vehicles and the miles and wear.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 30, 2016 19:20:12 GMT -6
Tman splicing the apple 14 ways again I see? Wind power or wind electricity ? LOL?
Either way I am fine with wind, the anti wind crowd has gotten its way in some areas, and yes they vote democratic as well.
Bryce tell me where I can find carbon credits, and tier 4 compliance money going for roads? I have yet to find such?
Also the blue def and the industry that has started where does all the tax money on blue DEF go for roads? I have yet to find that either?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2016 6:18:11 GMT -6
your posts simply boggle my mind-
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