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Post by trappnman on Mar 27, 2016 7:44:46 GMT -6
you have your view, I have mine.
be proud you support a racist like Trump-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 28, 2016 15:41:32 GMT -6
Lol I am now a trump backer and a racist and a member of the KKK in your words LOL
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Post by bblwi on Mar 28, 2016 20:43:27 GMT -6
No I am not upset that you did not serve. There are over 200 million adults in the US that did not serve. I object to the discussion and language that pits veterans that don't have the same political views as you and those you support are not good Americans or are bad for our society because we are less vocal on gun rights than you are. When you raise your hand to vow to defend the Constitution you do it for the whole 9 yards and not the portions you choose to lift up. That to me is the difference in many as those who served learned what that meant and those that did not can pick and choose because they have less skin in the game and for those that died or were wounded it was more than skin.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2016 4:56:09 GMT -6
Bryce your free to have your own views as all others. You choose not to put an emphasis on gun ownership and legal gun owners and not be staunch on the issues of the 2nd amendment so be it, to ME and millions of others though the gun issues are a REAL make or break issue. Again there is not one shred of evidence showing strict gun control does anything for reducing crime, so why the need by the liberials to keep pausing for more of things that do not work? They are attempting to erode in parts portions of amendments that to ME and millions of others is dangerous. I find it no different than trapping issues really. All this crap about lynx and such just another ploy to remove trapping from the landscape! A little at a time. Freedoms do not come easy, though it seems to some taking away such freedoms is no big deal? Common sense is lacking in many areas today.
The Massachusetts court and their ruling that stun guns do not apply in heller, because they weren't around at the time of the writing? That is a dangerous Liberal mindset of the ruling. I for one am glad the SCOTUS saw right thru that bent logic and seen it for what it was, a ploy to limit certain guns in the state. If they would have been successful in this tactic just think the list they could pick and choose from for what someone could own? Again eroding away more of our rights as legal gun owners.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 29, 2016 7:13:39 GMT -6
the GOP pushed Heller-
that's eroding the 2nd
damn conservatives trying to eliminate the 2nd- that made me and millions of liberals who support the 2nd mad.
YOU might support the conservative view to eliminate all guns, but not me!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2016 17:03:24 GMT -6
LOL liberials who support guns? What state are they in? Because I see very few voting for pro gun bills, unless they are in the SE US.
At least now when Hillary or Bernie try to ban AR rifles we have some precedence to fight back with and I like our chances to keep AR rifles off the banned list.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 29, 2016 17:32:46 GMT -6
Your generalizations are amazing. There are many, many citizens who support the Democratic ticket that are also hunters, gun owners and gun advocates. Life for many is not as simple as you make it out to be and they make choices based on issues, discussion and the need to move forward as a society. The fact that we have a couple dozen amendments to our Constitution is indicative of our nations willingness to move forward and modify our base. It is a sign of strength to me that we can build on a strong foundation instead of fearing change. The base is strong and the stronger the base the less insecure we as a society need to be about refusing to change.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2016 18:49:27 GMT -6
Bryce some of what I said was jest, but clearly if your a gun rights person and vote democratic then gun issues and rights of such do not hold the values to YOU that they do others. It would be like a certain party always voting to get rid of trapping, how could I ever vote for a party that would try to undermine such?
I am all for MORE choices, but not mandates. I strongly disagree with an AR ban and I do not even own one. I disagree under the premise of what it can do to other firearms and the FREEDOM of choice. Just because I do not choose to hunt or target shoot with an AR should not mean others are not afforded that right or that if I choose to buy one I should be able to do so as a legal firearms owner. The ban will do nothing but ban them from legal uses.
I have views on many items, many are linked to my religious beliefs and therefore excludes some right off the bat, you might call it simple indeed, I call it standing up for my beliefs. Those beliefs are based on my religion and my convictions as to what life is about. To me we don't need less religion in this world we need more. You and others may think differently but I will back those that are like minded. We still are one nation under God. For how long who knows.
The bad means little to me, I want to see out country prosper and see people achieve, again handouts and more handouts leave little room to achieve and sadly we see some who are willing to induce more handouts to be beholden to our govt, those are facts. Since when will the govt ever take away any social programs. The Indian reservations have been in shambles for years and years and we stay status quo and then democrats come in and tell them if you vote republican what you get will be taken away. What they have is no conviction, no work ethic and super high poverty, to me that isn't life or a base but exsisiting by the hands of the central govt nothing more or less.
We need to take a long look at what has changed in the last 40-50 or so years in this country, why do we have more issues? My mom in the 60's bought my dad a gun and no paperwork needed, for many years yet we didn't have all of these shootings taking place why the change?
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Post by trappnman on Mar 30, 2016 6:36:22 GMT -6
Your generalizations are amazing. There are many, many citizens who support the Democratic ticket that are also hunters, gun owners and gun advocates
exactly right Bryce- and he seems to, briefly, get the point, then he states:
clearly if your a gun rights person and vote democratic then gun issues and rights of such do not hold the values to YOU that they do others.
which is the same bullshite he has been posting since he started the thread.
and the same falseness-
guns, on both sides, are a bipartisan issue- that's obvious to anyone that really cares enough to see what history shows us-
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Post by bblwi on Mar 30, 2016 12:24:25 GMT -6
So we are a joke to you and thus this is not a serious discussion on the issues that face our nation and citizens, just an exercise for you that feels we would support a candidate you find anti American and you don't even know if that is true or not.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2016 15:31:39 GMT -6
Bryce you need to relax. Trying to keep things lite at times is all. I am serious as to the issues at hand many are grave IMO, like who gets to pick the next 2-3 justices on the Supreme Court, that could have a long lasting impact on millions and millions.
The hand outs and how they keep getting bigger and not smaller, job growth, taxation, gun rights, our military and the safety of our country. Just a few top issues for me and millions of others.
Who is best suited to take on these things and who is not.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2016 15:35:26 GMT -6
Ok let's take this real slow, the democrats vote in a majority to stifle gun ownership or create anti gun ownership bills, that is fact if you would like me to pull up the last 10 years of gun bills and how each voted I can and will. The facts are in the votes. That simple. If your a staunch gun advocate I do not see how you can vote for the candidates that want to take away freedoms when it comes to the ownership of guns. This is not a debate but a clear track record of voting in the congress. I mean let's call a spade a spade really.........,
It is obvious that some are willing to let these votes and attaxks on the 2nd amemendment slide by for other issues YOU and THEY feel are more important. Otherwise how else can you explain the votes on gun bills brought forth and the talk of who is looking to stifle the gun industry and also legal ownership?
Tman you call it BS but the voting records are there for all to see plain as day. The quotes and video clips are there as well. There is BS and facts and the voting records of democrats and republicans on gun bills are night and day.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 31, 2016 7:27:36 GMT -6
the last and greatest assault on the 2nd amendment was made by the latest GOP president.
slower?
the......last......and.....greatest....assault....on....the.....2nd..amendment.....was.....made..........by...the.......latest.....GOP......president.
get your head out of.....the sand.
and the SC is why I'd NEVER in a million years, vote for any GOP candidate running today
handouts? again with TC.... F*** the poor cause they take food stamps, but bask in the glory of billions in corporate welfare.
have another glass of koolaid
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Post by bblwi on Mar 31, 2016 10:59:47 GMT -6
I have more very conservative principles than many would imagine but one I don't hold to at the cost of all others is that gun rights are my only way to have a secure, safe and prosperous economy. The 2nd amendment is more about personal rights than safety, economic gain, freedom of many choices, or working as a successful society. As strong as the freedom of being able to buy whatever firearm I choose any day of the week at any store or show to me is about being fearful of all around us and that makes moving forward as a cohesive society working to raise our standards of living and educational levels very doubtful as hate and fear limit growth and opportunity instead of increase opportunity. When the doors of the landing units reached Normandy did the 40k allied troops that died in those few hours do so out of fear or a hope for a better future if they succeeded? I feel that the gun issue(s) will come to a real head over time if our law enforcement persons continue to fire upon unarmed citizens and the municipalities start enforcing laws that limit weaponry to law enforcement then firearm ownership for private citizens will come next. If the a laws increase injury and killing instead of lowering killing the citizens will change the course. So it takes a 100 years, but then many things take time. Slaves were freed 154 years ago and there are still many attempts to limit their voting rights in many states. When we limit or deny opportunity for say 40-80 million citizens to be a part of democracy what do they have to lose if they rebel against what is taking place? ISIS, and many other militant groups are in many cases made of up poorly educated, disenfranchised people who can be easily swayed to give all as they have been unable to become a real part of anything due to the actions of others.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 31, 2016 19:09:28 GMT -6
Tman you know my information is factual and that is why you do not speak to the points and votes on such but the same ol Bush rhetoric. I get it hard to hide from the voting records of every congressional person on gun issues.
Tman I am all for helping those that truly need it, I am not for changing the lines of poverty to get more people to fit under that umbrella, hence the reason for the largest portion of the population in our history receiving benefits today. It is a plan to get more people beholden to the central govt. that is why Bernie and Hillary talk about more programs and wealth and income redistribution, sounds great until one figures out the details, then those lthat like hanging under the umbrella keep voting them back into control. Sorry not my world. I am not a socialist and never could be one. Indian reservations once again hey?
It really burns your butt that business makes millions and millions doesn't it? Ok in your mind what is the fair share they should pay? Those that make 5 million,20 million, 100 million or more? What percentage in your mind is fair?
You fail to relise they pay taxes this thought of the left for the last 20 years that business pays no taxes is just not factual. I know plenty of people that own business and they pay for sure.
Bryce personnel freedoms are at the heart of our country. Gun rights and other choices mean a lot to me.
Unarmed citizens that is easy, follow the officers commands, people use to do that more.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 31, 2016 19:31:10 GMT -6
You may be very, very surprised by the number of personal freedoms that are intact in highly socialistic nations like Germany, Netherlands, England, the Scandinavian nations or all of western Europe for that matter. When I traveled in those nations the private and personal rights of individuals were many and highly valued and in many ways much more common than many over here. Now there may have been significant restrictions on firearms but many are owned. In fact in some nations a minimum of one firearm is required in a household and yes they do come with training but I don't see that as bad. Where you can take a pet, dog, where you an house a pet, smoking public and private, establishing kiosks etc. were all more common and used there than here. Not saying all were good but they were, just like drinking ages, smoking ages, access to drugs, medications, driving and owning an auto etc. We are not alone in the World with personal freedoms, not by a long shot.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 1, 2016 5:06:22 GMT -6
Never said we are the only one with personnel freedoms but we enjoy many more than MOST and we are the freest country on the planet for NOW. I do not want more and more of them taken away even though some think they are small or have far less meaning than the whole picture, because the entire picture is made up of all those personnel freedoms.
Again less central govt Input and control, we are the United States, allow states to have the freedoms to choose , then people have the choice as to what state they want to move to, live in and give their money to. I feel a certain sector of our central govt is trying to get all states to become the same, that is not what our country is about, we are about freedoms of choice and living where one finds it best suited for them and their families. Not to become the "village" montra.
Yet again because we are a nation we do have certain rights and issue that the Supreme Court hears for all people in all states. It is to make sure some states to not impinge on those basic fundamental freedoms our fore fathers enacted. We don't need more excutive orders and trying to find ways to circumvent our constitution and amendments, because a handful of people think they know what is best for us when it comes to these documents.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 1, 2016 11:04:33 GMT -6
It really burns your butt that business makes millions and millions doesn't it? Ok in your mind what is the fair share they should pay? Those that make 5 million,20 million, 100 million or more? What percentage in your mind is fair?
You fail to relise they pay taxes this thought of the left for the last 20 years that business pays no taxes is just not factual. I know plenty of people that own business and they pay for sure.
what burns my butt is you, either wittingly or unwittingly, missing every point on every position, instead preferring to chase some red herring.
lets take the glaring misunderstandings, to the point of being factual lies-
I hope business makes tons of money. and many do. But what I object to is some of these- and its always been some despite you having the quality of painting with such a large brush (as an aside, in my point about who is against guns you must be blinded by the paint flying from such a big brush). SOME of these huge multinational corporations are paying effectively no taxes, and many others are paying far less than their share, as determined by law (and please- lets take a comparative look at taxes now vis a vis times of prosperity, so don't tell me corporation taxes on PROFIT are too high) and in some cases avoiding taxes through loopholes. and be
golly gee- wonder who wrote those rules into the tax code?
And it burns my butt that companies move factories to Mexico and other countries- and pay pennies on the dollar to workers, no worries about poisons or pollution- then bringing it back here duty free to sell.
yeah- damn right it burns my butt!
and it burns my butt when you create things- like "thought of the left for 20 years businesses pay no taxes"
why make shite up?
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Post by bblwi on Apr 1, 2016 13:26:38 GMT -6
I have no burn about a business being profitable or making a large profit. I spent 38 years consulting and teaching small business owners and getting them established. What I do object to is the aspect that these people business owners are better than the workforce and should have elitist and favored status when it comes to many aspects of our society such as more ability to control elections and politics, more access to well developed infrastructure, the ability due to size to squeeze out hundreds if not thousands of smaller businesses for profitable and bloated government contracts, be they federal, state or local. We also offer huge tax incentives TIF districts etc. and many firms don't follow through but do take the taxpayer's money. Back in the late 1980s our then Governor T. Thompsen raided the WRS public pension fund to get 400 million dollars to pay Chrysler to buy and keep the Rambler plant in Kenosha WI. Chrysler took the funds and two years later closed the plant. My Mom was a retired pensioner at the time and it took over 7 years of legal struggle with the state to get her money back. But you know she was just an LPN making about 15K per year taking care of highly handicapped youth and thus not an important part of our American way of life.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Apr 2, 2016 7:11:14 GMT -6
What I do object to is the aspect that these people business owners are better than the workforce and should have elitist and favored status when it comes to many aspects of our society such as more ability to control elections and politics, more access to well developed infrastructure, the ability due to size to squeeze out hundreds if not thousands of smaller businesses for profitable and bloated government contracts, be they federal, state or local. We also offer huge tax incentives TIF districts etc. and many firms don't follow through but do take the taxpayer's money.
well said!
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