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Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2016 7:25:48 GMT -6
TC your words are worthless until you actually name someone YOU support
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 16, 2016 20:19:47 GMT -6
My words are what they are. You can see them as worthless, others might see them as close to what they feel and believe. I cannot control the thoughts or actions of others, now that would be power hey?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 16, 2016 20:28:56 GMT -6
Bryce you feel,our housing, food and clothing is more expensive than other countries that are not 3 rd world?
Do you feel that the income distribution has anything to do with all of the social programs in our country? I could make a case for a portion of it being so.
A flat tax and balanced budget would go along ways, just because we have a flat tax doesn't mean one we need to spend it all and two it might be flat but as revenues rise so does the percentage taken in. A balanced budget just means we cannot go in the hole, we certainly could have a surplus that could be sued to pay down the debt. We need to make jobs a priority, make business strong again, export as much as we import. Get it as close to 50/50 as we can.
Bryce it is the 2 democratic people running for president telling us all they want to make sure the rich lay their share, they want to tax more on business, they want to spend more as well, how does that get close to paying off debt or interest? Again Bernie sanders plan has a net loss of 6 million jobs. That won't do a darn thing for anyone except the coffers of the federal govt but not at the numbers he says, the true numbers after you factor in the lost of wages and jobs are much lower and we still have between 4-6 million lost jobs over 10 years. How do we make up for all of those lost jobs? We are still in the whole with jobs the way it is.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 16, 2016 21:34:25 GMT -6
From a percentage basis of average or medium income we look lower than several developed nations, but most of those nations have a far more balanced income structure than we do so even if our average percent of income for food is 9% and our per capita is say 50K that is still $4500 per person. We could use say Netherlands that would be similar to us, but a tad lower and say they are at 45K with a 14% for food that would be say abut $5,500 per person for food, but their income distribution say has a standard deviation of say 10K or that 2/3rds of the Dutch would be plus or minus 20K of the 45K. Let us say that in the USA we have a standard deviation of say 20 K and that would mean that 17% would have an income lower than 10K instead of 25K as in the Netherlands. That would make food very expensive for roughly 50 Million Americans. Sure that situation would not be solved by more socialism in and of itself but it sure is not being solved by our present system either. We also have to remember like it or not that the 75 Billion in Food stamps all goes through businesses that are for profit and hire people and that money is 100% put back into the economy. There are costs to not having some program areas as well. The example above could be used for housing, clothing and energy. Energy is taxed at very high prices in most developed nations to collect revenue but also to detract from frivolous use of energy and encourage reliable usable public transportation that works for the low, medium and high income earners.
Bryce
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Post by PamIsMe on Mar 17, 2016 0:59:02 GMT -6
"We also have to remember like it or not that the 75 Billion in Food stamps all goes through businesses that are for profit and hire people and that money is 100% put back into the economy."
Right on. I'd venture to say that every form of what are called rightly or wrongly called "entitlements" the government provides go 100% back into the economy, including social security which everyone contributes to out of their paychecks. The wealthy invest and shelter their money, pretty much everyone else spends it out of necessity.
Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 5:02:18 GMT -6
Again comes back to who do we want controlling jobs the govt or private people.
The problem with the Scandinavian countries you list is they are home bodies and much smaller than the US, they keep a lot of their business in house and are in a far different place than a large country like the US. We still have much cheaper food than most countries in the world. We also have an abundant supply as well.
Energy cost continue to rise and that is apart of doing business, the cost gets passed on to consumers and workers. Nothing wrong with cheaper reliable energy. Again though seen by some as a bad thing.
Social programs do not raise standards of living. Look at the lowest per capita incomes and where they are located and why here in the US. Yep Indian reservations. They relieve a lot of these programs and yet they still have a very low standard of living. Again not a great model to expand into other parts of our nation. Success is obtained through achievement not existence.
If we keep adding more taxation to all programs and create MORE programs then all we do is pull more people down Into the ranks of such programs. Again yes some need the he,p with out a doubt, but the key is to achieve , not remain status quo, we do that with job growth and more business. The left they talk about is more taxes, more programs, making programs larger and more encompassing. i also would agree that is much easier than the alternatives, but we must do the right things in our country and going more socialized for a country our size based in a free market economy not the answer IMO.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2016 5:52:46 GMT -6
your words are just mindboggling because they are so WRONG-
one of the silliest things I read lately- is social programs don't raise the standard of living
what country DO you live in? Oz?
why is it so hard for you to grasp the simple concept of PRIORITY
and again, to cowardly to name a name-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 9:45:13 GMT -6
Tman again what Indian reservation has adequate standards of living ? Even those with casinos still are above standard for theost part, not self sufficient at all. Those without casinos well look up the numbers ran as a socialist regime by our central govt. unemployment very high, very little to no private sector business , avg mean income the lowest in the nation, again exsisting versus achievement . You ask what proof I have really?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 9:47:53 GMT -6
Priority of what? When the govt takes care of all your basic needs how does one alive priorities in there lives?
Through time too easy to become less productive instead of productive or more productive. How does a country grow under such as more and more people become more dependant on the central govt?
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2016 10:27:29 GMT -6
you back subsidies to major corporations, you back having tax loopholes and corporations avoiding taxes, you rail at food stamps but ignore stupid wars as why we are so far in debt-
and you wonder about priorities?
good grief
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Post by bblwi on Mar 17, 2016 10:30:43 GMT -6
Netherlands is not a Scandinavian County TC, but it is smaller for sure. If you are basing the size of a nation on why something works or does not work that is a very narrow and to me very wrong perception. There are two nations 3-5 times our size that are working to find the appropriate mix of socialism and capitalism that lifts up their nations and citizens and we may be quite surprised and should be somewhat concerned about their current rates of progress. Much of that progress is centered around a high level of literacy and functional literacy for all. Here we have made decisions to allow millions to become and stay illiterate from a functional aspect, which does not bode well for future economic growth. As to America having the cheaper food, my post addressed that from percentage of income aspect and yes one could say that it is but in reality the cost of food actual hard dollars would cause probably 6 of the 7 billion to starve to death in this world. It is like the tax issue we can use figures to mask what really is happening which allows people to take very different value sets about how they interpret what is taking place. If gun issues are such a concern for you then why not immigrate to Sudan, or Chad, Niger or other western equatorial African nations where there are no gun laws, no taxes and lots of freedom if you are willing to stand guard on your own property 24/7 That seems to be the common thought process for many who feel government is too large and invasive. If we don't set down and work out a ways to help millions of citizens on the lower end for a whole host of reasons become more competitive in the private sector, the light at the end of the tunnel looks like more not less government intervention is the most likely option. When you have a 95-5 income split, a 90-10 taxation split and a widening ideological split that is a recipe for some unrest down the road. We can see it now in the lack of civility in our few presidential candidates, let alone the millions who promote their behaviors on either side. Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 17:28:19 GMT -6
Bryce many economist do the same, as what works in a smaller country that stays with in themselves is not the model that would work for countries the size and ability to trade with the world. A smaller population is easier to deal with than a much larger one would you not agree?
Why should I have to move from my home country in order to be protected by our 2nd amendment? What is the point of the amendments and constitution without the need to protect such? If I have to move to secure freedoms from the nation with the most freedoms then what does that say about those in charge and our country?
We are the united states we still still have freedoms and choices, allow the states to decide not the central govt more often than not. There are states that are more free than others and should be able to remain as such. Colorado is doing such with weed, the federal govt still says it is against federal law but turn an eye to the state of Colorado and give them their fed money. So they should do for other states that are not following federal laws to the letter, as long as money can be made correct?
Thomas Jefferson said, "No free man will ever be debarred the use of arms" Lincoln stated how many years ago and that is where we are today, " America will never be destroyed from the outside, If we falter and loose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves"
Americans have so much choices when to comes to food, so many more than most other countries. I can go the a very large farmers market in the summer in Kansas City and get great deals on fresh foods, far better than a grocery store as their over head is far lower. One really hasn't seen a farmers market until you have went to the one in KC. All walks of life selling great things and Amish goods, to real Greek and Italin foods you name it can be found there in season and fresh. Prices super cheap.
I will take our food choices and prices over many other countries for sure.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 17, 2016 21:28:52 GMT -6
I can't believe you feel a country like the Netherlands with about 20 million citizens can't compete in the World trade. Do you know how many Dutch companies there are scattered all over the World that are part of the largest conglomerates in the World? If size makes things so much easier why are Hati, Greece, Spain etc. struggling so much?
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 18, 2016 7:35:48 GMT -6
Bryce you really have to ask why Greece is struggling so much? They are a socialist country along with Spain, bottom line they ran out of spending other people's money. Simple to see really. Margert Thatcher warned of such, when you get to heavy into a socialist regime you run out of money at some point. The Greece people put Syriza in charge a radical left movement and they promised far more than the tax base in Greece would allow.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 18, 2016 7:42:53 GMT -6
coyote control is what drove the US to their financial collapse
cause coyote control is absolute socialism- so following your logic- people like you destroyed our economy
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 18, 2016 7:48:38 GMT -6
Tman really? lol your stretching a lot the facts are on the table for why Greece is in the shape they are in. Look up Syriza party and the hard left attitude they take and why the country is broke.
Excellent quotes on Greece and one we have witnessed here in the US with our Indian reservations.
Collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior … it is a system that ignores incentives.
By their failure to foster, promote and nurture the potential of their people through incentive-enhancing institutions, centrally-planned economies deprive the human spirit of full development. Socialism fails because it kills and destroys the human spirit.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 18, 2016 11:24:44 GMT -6
I noticed no challenge to the Netherlands and did include those nations as they are socialist and struggle but you pick and choose as needed for your set of "FACTS".
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 18, 2016 14:33:53 GMT -6
Bryce the Netherlands is the 5 th largest exporter in the country as a whole, but 79 percent is traded with Europe and a lot in Western Europe German, Belguim and France are their biggest trade partners and they rely on them for a BIG portion of their exports. So not really globally but more neighborly. Oil is there number 1 export. So of course their going to be in the top 10 when it comes to such.
Take out oil and Korea is right there with them.
Yet when you figure in the 18 million or so people they do well and will because of the amount they export with such a small population their economy relise on exports for 72 percent of their economic output. With their population it amounts to 33.000 per person in that area darn good, but not realistic for a larger country to do such. If the US or China could avg 33.000 export per person where would we be! We could afford everything and then some. 330 million times 33,000 per person?
Right now we export What 2 trillion dollars imagine if we could export 5,000 for every person in the US. Not going to happen in a large country where many workers need to produce goods and services for 330 million people.
Where do we think China would be if they could get 5,000 for every person in their country?
The point is made, easier for smaller developed countries to have higher exports than much larger ones.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 18, 2016 14:44:34 GMT -6
Bryce pick and choose? Really? Greece and Spain have borrowed to much and promised to much in their countries that is why they need bailing out. Socialism is never going to work it has been proven time and again, by people a lot smarter then me LOL. Your going to run out of money or have massive debt, which the US is seeing today with 20 trillion, do I think for a second that Sanders or Hillary will turn the tide? Heck NO. The debt means little to them, they want to keep offering more and more social programs to keep people under their wing to retain control and power. At some point it will bite us in the butt, it has to,no other way around it.
We are a free market economy and we are trying to do things in their minds to make it less free and more govt ran, it will always take more money because of all the layers for most of it, not all programs bust many run with far too much red tape and cost involved. Every year will not be rosey and the taxes raised will go up and down, but these programs are locked in types they will not cut them, amend them as needed. History has shown that. Don't know what else to tell you. The only way more programs and more taxes would have a chance is with a balanced budget or a surplus budget. They will not adhere to a balanced budget because then what do they have to run on in all reality?
The 2 democrats are talking about more taxes, more programs, less choice more govt intervention in all facets of our lives, that will cost jobs and revenue to the very people going to work each day. We are not the Netherlands or Korea, or Germany. I for sure do not want us to be any of them, we are the United states of America, where people, come to be free, make their own way in life and prosper.
Caps not to offend you but again, WE CANNOT HAVE PROSPERITY with socialist view points and the govt providing for us across the board. None of you have answered to the Indian reservation model we have had for years, I know why and so do you deep down. It just does not work! The closer the left tries to take us in that direction the less prosperous people will be and more beholden on the central govt and the need to keep rising taxes all the time.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 19, 2016 6:42:23 GMT -6
TC- the red herring king- see my other post as to why
the above post is 3rd grade rhetoric at best-
you don't even understand what the word means
THATS what blows me away-
you don't understand what the word means, yet, you are against it. Which is absolutely one of the most hypocritical things I've ever heard. YOU worked for coyote control- where govt money is involved, and a "head tax" is put on all the ranchers to get money to hire people to control coyotes- even if you are a ranch with no coyotes.
Could you design a more socialistic program if you tried for coyote control? no- that's obvious to ANYONE that understands what the word "socialism" is-
to argue it is not, is silly at best
and if that's not the exact way the program worked- its damn sure close enough
and your wife- he works for an expanded govt. Her school, gets both federal and state money. Her district most likely has its own school tax or bonds- where EVERY citizen pays, whether they have kids in school or not. You kid gets the same education whether he is dirt poor, or well off.
THATS socialism at its finest.
but what does TC say?
no- K-12 is different- that's not socialism
but free college? good God the red hoard is upon us!
and don't get me started on state parks, roads, fire and police depts, on and on.
and yes Virginia- those ARE socialism- and once again, to belabor the point- if you disagree- it PROVES you don't understand the word, but are just parroting what you read from others that understand it less than you this whole country, was founded on socialism- we just didn't call it that
but a rose by any other name............
how anyone can want the GOP economic plans after the last 30 years, is beyond me. what rock do they live under? it took 7 years to dig us out of the hole the GOP put us in, and TC wants to go BACK? or maybe not- who knows who knows who TC supports
who starts 2 wars, w/o 1 $ to pay for them? gee- guess.
Who borrows that money from SS, other countrys, other funds, blue sky, to fund those wars? Guess
and who blames Bernie for this?
TC, of course
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