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Post by trappnman on Mar 14, 2016 6:01:58 GMT -6
until you name a candidate you support, I'll no longer respond to your posts
if you don't have the maturity to stand up for your values, not worth my time
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 14, 2016 17:46:12 GMT -6
I am standing up for my values,by pointing out why soicalisim thoughts and ideals will not work for America. Yet we keep going around on how the left is for liberating the majority and the right is to keep them under control? One has the ideals of smaller govt, less govt intrusion, and less taxation and the other has the ideals of more taxation, more handouts, more for free. Which one sounds to you the one that wants to control people's lives more? Does this plan seem doable ? taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan
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Post by bblwi on Mar 14, 2016 19:23:26 GMT -6
If you don't want to tax then how do you plan to pay off the debt? Or maybe you are like many GOP supporters we won't raise taxes to pay down debt. That means if we cut all of the programs that the GOP does not like such as SNAP (remember that is AG and the lobby for farm program comes from the GOP heartland) social services, changes to SSI, Medicare, HUD, Department of ED etc. If all those together were say 750 billion per year we would not pay much off but interest for about a decade. which means those less fortunate than the upper level income earners of today will pay that off in the future, but about a generation away or more. We also have to realize that when we take 750 billion out of the economy that means that even more funds are in the hands of fewer and for all those states that use high sales taxes to fund programs instead of higher real estate tax or state income tax will collect far fewer dollars also.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 15, 2016 5:16:28 GMT -6
Taxing business and people more will control debt how? The programs talked about are raising more money to fund more programs nit cut into the debt.
We need job growth and balanced budgets. We need to start exporting more and importing less. We make the US as whole more business friendly not less freindly. We do that by not taxing everyone under the sun.
The answer in my mind is not to keep adding more social programs but finding ways to get more people working............ One is an investment in people the other is just investing in a program......... Programs that will continue to eat away more and more of our budget, and the answer is to just keep raising taxes as the price goes up?
At what point are people and business paying too much tax? Where is that line? 40,50,60 percent of ones gross check? Business running on a profit margin of less than 10 percent? Where is the line that enough is enough? Or is taxation never enough? We just keep adding to it and adding more free things in people's lives in exchange for their hard earned money?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 15, 2016 19:16:28 GMT -6
Hillary on the podium working the Chicago gun violence once again............
Man will all state game depts be filthy rich if she wins the election! People think gun sales where crazy these past 8 years, hold on to your shirt tails as it will get mega crazy if she becomes our next POTUS.
In the last 3 years Americans have spent over 1 trillion dollars in Pittman/Roberson excise taxes. That is all 100 percent voluntary taxation! Wildlife is in great shape with all this money going out to the states. I predict in the next 4 years we will have more guns in the US than people! The voice of the American gun owners are loud and clear and how they feel about their 2nd amendment rights as legal gun owners. To the tune of 1 trillion in taxes alone!
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Post by jim on Mar 16, 2016 4:06:09 GMT -6
I think there are more guns than people right now. Surprising to me I thought most people had a couple and a lot have several.
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 16, 2016 5:07:32 GMT -6
Jim the last numbers I saw we had about 300 million guns in the US now not science based at all, but you could be right and again if Hillary elected, the state game coffers will even be more flush with match money!
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Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2016 6:53:38 GMT -6
to TC the sky is always falling- even with no information or proof- every 4 years- the sky is falling!
yet, with all this political discourse, TC is too afraid to list who he actually SUPPORTS.
never have I seen anything like that- TC is what we used to call a "rabble rouser"
someone that complains and complains- but never offers a solution
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Post by bblwi on Mar 16, 2016 10:01:49 GMT -6
The jest of my post was that increased spending would have to stop and the amount of money 750 billion was not increasing tax collections it was cutting all of those programs you have indicated you do not support. Still a long, long journey to pay down debt.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 16, 2016 20:15:29 GMT -6
Tman with a democrat being elected as president the sky won't fall, our economy will, our gun rights will. Listen to what Bsrnie and Hillary have said on the issues, look at the tax foundation report on Sanders programs, none of it adds up to be a good thing, nothing more or less.
Hillary will go for an AR ban and magazine ban, that will do nothing statistical for gun violence/criminal activity what so ever, we have been there already with Billy Clinton.
Bryce we pay down the debt over time it was built over time and added to over the last 8 years to the tune of 12 trillion dollars. We need job growth, we need more housing starts, we need a better economy, we need better trade deals, we need to cut waste across the board. When people are in tough times they do not go out and spend more, they cut back and make the hard choices now for a better tomorrow.
Govt jobs is not the answer as it takes more tax dollars to do such, private enterprise and allowing business to start up without being hammered from all angles on taxes, rules and regulations that look to hamper private business start ups.
I hear none of that from either Bernie or Hillary. Again Bernies plans have been shown to be a negative not a positive. The sky might not be falling but our country is each year in many regards. Do I want my kids, your kids or our grand kids looking at a country with 30 -40 trillion of debt? Does that make us a strong country in the eyes of the world? Bush started it and Obama added to it in a large way, now who is going to start cutting down the debt even a little at the time? Raising taxes to cut down debt and raising taxes for more social programs big difference in my mind. A balanced budget from the get go, we fund what we can afford, quit printing money with no backing, cut the waste and work on job growth, brining back jobs to the US and limit fraud to a degree it masks fiscal sense.
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Post by bblwi on Mar 16, 2016 21:42:09 GMT -6
Taxes probably kills fewer jobs than business owners not willing to compete in a growing yet worldwide economy. When you were able to be the only provider you could run inefficiently and be successful. Most developed nations that have significant manufacturing capability have higher wages or as high as ours so labor costs are not as big of an issue as claimed. Also many nations have similar or higher taxes. The European nations many have had to look overseas to market and to produce because there was no space or resources to build things, yet they chose to take those risks. Japan also is a nation rich in people, talent, work ethic and intelligence but horribly poor in most resources, yet they chose to compete in the world of manufacturing and marketing. They have had a long string of years of stagnation, by not having any inflation but the fact remains they were able to compete globally and have to buy most of the resources need to manufacture almost anything. They also routed their profits into land and real estate worldwide, but the real estate they buy has income and production and not leisure as a base.
Bryce
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Post by PamIsMe on Mar 17, 2016 0:52:43 GMT -6
"Tman with a democrat being elected as president the sky won't fall, our economy will, our gun rights will."
The last time the economy was good was back when Bill Clinton was President and people were actually earning interest on their pensions and investments. I know because that's when Gary retired and we could take out interest every month. Our economy HAS been improving the past 7 years, not as fast as most would like, but improving. The job rate is up, unemployment down and more people than ever have health insurance coverage. In spite of the dire threats of Republicans, everyone still has their guns and many have more guns than they did 7 years ago.
When I was a kid it was said that Republicans were the white collar party and Democrats were the blue collar party. I don't see any change in that.
Cheers, Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 5:23:42 GMT -6
Pam that explains it you keep believing the old wives tales LOL.
We still have our gun rights intact because of a republican controlled congress. People have bought more guns than ever in the last 7 years and will continue to do such, why? Because of the words comming from the mouths of the democrats.
My parents where staunch democrats for many years, they have switched over in the last 8-10 years they have seen what is and has taken place on many issues, they no longer relate to such. Their not rich either, not by any standards.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2016 5:50:03 GMT -6
good post Pam!
facts are wonderful things
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 9:55:30 GMT -6
Tman the only fact I saw from Pam was the Internet created a boondoggle bubble for a period of years.
The rest is open for debate as far as job growth and other factors over the last several years.
We keep interest rates far too low and for a good reason, as this fragile economy could not take it , at some point inflation will catch us if we stay on the same course 20 trillion in debt and counting
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2016 10:24:39 GMT -6
job growth is open to debate?
only in TC's world-
under Bush- 8.5 million jobs were gained (and 7.1 lost) leaving a net gain of 1.5 million jobs
under Obama- Dec 2015 figures-
12,722,000 MORE payroll jobs in total 13,169,000 MORE private sector jobs 10,787,000 MORE people working (includes self-employed and agricultural workers)
the above is where the old saying about everyone having opinions but not their own facts comes into play
and as far as the economy- despite people like you that wanted the country to fail, he did a damn good job of bringing the country back from the shamble created by the last president
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 11:23:49 GMT -6
First off your numbers are fuzzy at best what is a job? You mean the PT jobs for the majority correct? Those held under 30hrs for thr AHCA? That does what for the economy's. Many of these people are getting Assitance in PART due to AHCA. Fact I know pelnty do people in that boat as we speak. Where is AG picking up jobs? Corn,beans off well,over 2.00 per bushel than a few years ago, we did away with the 1.00 subsidy in ethanol and with it went jobs. The best I could find is 60,000 jobs a year over 5 years in the AG sector many of them engineering jobs. John Deere in the tank. A good job really? 12 trillion added debt, housing still way off, home loans backed by our tax dollars or very darn few if any would be getting done. We still have 45 million people getting food aid. Housing is the lowest on record in 25 years for owning a home is at 63.8 percent that is with govt backed home loans, the debt has increased over 108 percent since he took office, Please give me the link to your source for numbers. How many are FT jobs versus PT as PT jobs will do little good except keep the socialist train moving down the tracks, people then become or are more dependent on govt programs to sustain themselves those are facts as well. Many employers are watching hours like a hawk so they can fulfill right up to and not go over 30 hrs due to AHCA again fact. Job numbers have never been crystal clear they are massaged and played with no matter who is in office. Been going on for decades. A PT job is basically a .5 job . He also said in 2010 he was going to double exports that never happened either and that is one of the KEYS to getting us back on the map with jobs and economy growth. www.bls.gov/news.release/cewbd.t01.htm
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 11:27:23 GMT -6
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Post by trappnman on Mar 17, 2016 15:12:01 GMT -6
if you don't believe the govt numbers then don't. I never expected you to- that would go against your pattern of ignoring facts
lets do this- lets put some money where your mouth is concerning facts-
you up for that?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 17, 2016 16:54:34 GMT -6
List your source as I'd did mine please. I am all for facts provided that are indeed for the dept of labor as I mentioned.
If you look at the ones I posted they are not as great as some might think, sure job growth but also some negatives. So again do what you will with the numbers but they come directly from the dept of labor. Does yours is all I am asking?
Just list your source. If the numbers you copied and pasted are indeed from the depth of labor so be it. I am fine with such.
Also I do not like those no longer looking for work not being factors in somehow as it gives us a lower unemployment rate than what is truly going on, it has to as they are not counted, then the question how do we count them if not looking for work? Maybe. We use social programs statistics to show a better and more true picture? Not just durring Obama's tenure but all of them.
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