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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 10, 2016 21:01:13 GMT -6
www.nraila.org/articles/20160205/bill-aimed-at-ending-operation-choke-point-passes-houseAlready stated he will veto such? Hum. Seems harsh to me to lump legal business in with illegal activity just because you have a bias against some forms of business and strong arm the banks? But then again doesn't surprise me under this admin what so ever. Listing gun and ammo makers in with terrorist activities? Come on, I thought we lived in a country that you where innocent until proven guilty? By pass some people 2 nd amendment rights by adding them to a list? Listen some dealers in ammunition and firearms so they have a hard time working with banks feeling the pressure from the admin?
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Post by trappnman on Feb 13, 2016 10:27:57 GMT -6
once the NRA stopped advocating their program in a bipartisan way and became a political wing of the GOP, I take their words as nothing more than self serving fraud.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 13, 2016 14:21:42 GMT -6
Not there words Tman read the words of the guy that worked for the Feds in FDIC. Only a few more months of Obama and executive orders and maybe the people will wake up.
Despite his backdoor approach many have made so much money from the firearms industry they don't need the banks they have working capital, the ones who do not are being keyed on by this admin. If not an issue why bring up a bill? Also if not true why would Obama already state a veto?
The NRA aside from the issue, this has been an ongoing problem with this admin and it will be over come Novemeber, just hope many of the harmful executive orders get repealed by Next Febuary 1st 2017
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Post by PamIsMe on Feb 14, 2016 23:06:00 GMT -6
" many have made so much money from the firearms industry they don't need the banks.."
I think that's probably true thanks to NRA's constant dire warnings.
So what's the real problem? How many businesses have been shut down because of the original directive which covers a multitude of areas, not just gun related.
Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 15, 2016 7:45:29 GMT -6
Pam not the point! The point was made by the former FDIC employee and what is happing behind the scenes and the reason they are trying to enact new legislation on the issue. No different than the IRS issue, the many,many executive orders brought by this president.The NRA? Funny all one has to do is listen to Obama and the 2 dems running for president they strike enough fear against the 2nd amendment the NRA really needs to do little themselves on the issues of guns and gun control to keep product moving at historical record rates. The NRA is there trying to keep people's freedoms from a group that says they will take a hard line on gun control.
One only needs to look at those running for president on either side after some of these shootings and see the REAL difference the republicans tweeting praying for their families and loved ones, the dems tweeting for hard line on gun control.
The point being selling firearms and ammunition is controlled by ATF and is a legal means for anyone to make a living if following laws and regulations and should not be curtailed by this Admin because they do so and they disagree with the business. Obama is supposed to uphold and protect the constitution not try to tear it apart with laws and back door dealings. Again we expect nothing less from this admin as they don't have the votes to enact what they really want at this point ,so they find another means to further a private agenda against the people.
The people of this country have spoken out on the issues of guns and gun control by buying record amounts of guns and the shooting sports are at all time high between men and woman, those with conceal carry permits never higher in our countries history! The people have spoken and choose to have freedoms on guns in a majority and also protected by our 2nd amendments, the left can stop worrying about such and move onto other issues.
I can tell you many state wildlife agencies are in great shape with all the pitt/Roberson money comming Into them over the past 8 years, in fact because it is a 75/25 deal, some states have a lot of this money sitting on account because they have a tough time comming up with the 25 percent match on the volume of money received off of guns and ammo sales. The benefits will be those hunters and non hunters alike because of all this money being taken in and the gun owners of America are glad to help out with this tax!
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Post by trappnman on Feb 16, 2016 8:02:25 GMT -6
why all the uproar about ex orders? your hero W made more of them- and pretty much every president has done the same. I'm somewhat amused at those that rail against them, not understanding that its a right of a president. and don't get too excited about the new president changing them- cause the new president will not be from the right.
yes- the people HAVE spoken out on gun issues- you really want to go there? I mean seriously, research what the people actually DO want, not what YOU want. and the people want loopholes closed, extended background checks, etc- common sense ideas that 70-80% of the public agree with. YOU are the one out of step with what's occurring.
and we aren't going to lose our guns, we aren't going to lose the 2nd amendment- good grief
don't you get tired of running from boogymen?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 17, 2016 5:56:07 GMT -6
Because what other presidents used executive orders on and what this president has done are different things. Go online and look up all executive orders they are public information.
Yes I do when asked by Gallup if gun control should be stronger 77 percent of those that labeled themselves democrat said yes, only 27 percent of those that labeled themselves republican said yes, 54 percent labeled as independent said yes virtually a dead heat with independents, non guns owners 64 percent thought their should be tougher gun control, while only 36 percent of gun owners thought they should be tougher, 43 percent of Americans have A gun in the house.
Also Gallup explained it well, timing of these questions are paramount the numbers ebb and flow if you ask after a well documented shooting numbers rise some, versus a period of calm numbers drop some. These numbers where taken shortly after the Oregon shooting by the way a high point for the rhetoric of more gun control and the highest numbers as shown where by democrats, again even independents where almost 50/50 after such.
You forgot the left wants to end AR's and magazine bans. Again these are not "assault rifles" they made that term up, they are AR Armalite rifle Corp. shooting sports and gun sales at all time record highs, why then? Because of the banter and rumors yes. Also listen to the democrats debating and sound bites and they are trying to show who will be tougher on guns, all that does is drive more sales and create more panic Amongst those that want to protect the 2nd amendment even more. Background checks are a non issue for most, again if your a licensed FFL dealer you have to do a background check regardless of where sale take place, looking at ways to make more people fall under such is an issue many do not agree with, if I sell 3 guns a year am I labeled a dealer of firearms? Private to private sales cannot nor should they be under this system, the liability is placed on the gun owner. Then you have the talk from the left about holding firearm makes liable for shootings? People are not into that at all, otherwise we have to make liable many other product manufactures for misuse of a product as well. That is just plain silly and the American people know it, an agenda being pushed nothing more to curtail gun sales without stating such. No other way to make that statement.
The boogeyman may not be real but the wolf in sheeps clothing is there,they just choose to reword and rephrase their agenda. To make it more palatable to many.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 17, 2016 7:23:25 GMT -6
I hear all the hype on the Democrats- but the FACT is the LAST GOP president, launched the biggest assault on the 2nd as we know it- so you worry about boogymen under the bed, I'll look at history
so it is ok with you, for terrorists to buy their weapons via the internet, or the want ads?
but I'm not going to redebate this- we had an election on this and 5,000,000+ more AMERICANS voted for the President and his ideas, vs your man and his ideas.
if this is your issue, more power to you, it isn't MY top issue- and if it was, based on what the last GOP president (incidently on the campaign trial with a current candidate)tried to accomplish in getting- and read this twice or more if needed- the 2nd amendment DEFINED AS APPLYING TO MILITIAS ONLY.
If the left had done that, you would be screaming from the rooftop-
quit drinking the koolaid
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Post by PamIsMe on Feb 17, 2016 17:45:23 GMT -6
"The people have spoken and choose to have freedoms on guns in a majority and also protected by our 2nd amendments, the left can stop worrying about such and move onto other issues. "
By "people" don't you just mean gun rights activists? The PEOPLE have indeed spoken and they elected the President TWICE all the while hearing what his views on guns were "thought" to be by the gun rights activists. None of their dire predictions have come true, but you are correct about sales of guns and ammo sky rocketing anyway. Paranoia goes a long way toward raising money.
Cheers, Pam
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RShaw
Demoman...
Posts: 147
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Post by RShaw on Feb 17, 2016 18:43:41 GMT -6
The sale of ammo and firearms carries a tax which is collected by the ATF. It amounts to 10% of all ammo sales and almost 10% of all firearms sales. In 2013 the government collected 875 million on these two items. Almost looks like we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 18, 2016 6:00:33 GMT -6
Pam none came true because of congress, a democratic majority would have made certain things like AR and magazine bans and other issues would have passed, people voted for republicans to keep a balance.
There is no majority against guns, in fact more and more people, are buying first time guns it has happened a lot in the last 8 years. The number of woman owning and shooting guns has been the highest in history under president Obama.
Rshaw I see a strong market as a positive, adds jobs, makes the gun owners more empowered and adds to Pitt Robertson funds as well. We are self funding the background check system we have as well, NICS is a large operation and employs many people, we get the benefit of instant background checks, versus in the early years of sales people waiting on hold for 30-40 mins to make a transaction or call and get a busy single over and over again. The process has been streamlined and keeps people's right to bear arms moving alone in a much more efficient manner.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 18, 2016 6:05:01 GMT -6
Tman your drinking the kool aid on the issues of the 2nd amendment..................
The right to keep and bear arms is a major issue as it is an attempt an erosion of once again limiting freedoms givin to us by the constitution of the US and our forefathers. One is tied to the other and so on down the list.
I am glad the people of this country put a republican majority in congress to counter act some of the legislation attempts put in by this admin and his counter parts in Washington. The reason we have mid term elections, people still have a voice as to how things are going along the way and have an option to buyers remorse.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 18, 2016 10:12:14 GMT -6
there IS a majority for gun ownership- and that SAME majority wants gun legislation to shore up common sense things such as background checks, closing loopholes, etc.
and Pam is 100% right- the people HAVE spoken- 5,000,000 more than the GOP candidate. Twice.
odd how that GOP congress is so vocal on the constitution on some issues, and wishes to ignore it on others.
The NRA has gotten not so much political- which is their right- but became an arm of a party- repeating that parties rhetoric- and the "He's going to take your guns!!! yes, yours!!!" and the truth is- no one is going to take your guns- thanks to a SC court that went against the Bush administrations justice team, and defined the 2nd as applying to individuals, not just militias. You brush this over and it really boggles my mind how or why you do- if Obama had done this, you wouldn't stop posting about it.
Are there going to be restrictions? yes- as there have been in one form or another since the 1700's. But the right to own guns as protection for both personal safety & sport, and the country's safety if that need should ever arise.
you trying to make the issue a political the sky is falling issue, just blows away in the light of reality-
you can have your views, and they can be strong views- but you can't claim the majority when in fact you are not- again, the country elected a president with certain views- and then relected him by more than 5,000,000 votes and an electorial landslide. His views, reflect the majority of Americans, as is borne out by any and all recent polls.
and to make my position clear on gun control- I carry.
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Post by bblwi on Feb 18, 2016 13:27:05 GMT -6
In actuality it is not the 2nd amendment or gun rights that is the big issue with a large portion of the American society or voters it is the "image and message" that rabid gun rights advocates caste and state about others who are even luke warm on gun issues and all the cultural divides that go with the between the lines discussion about who is pro or anti gun. Making a lot of noise now still works as the population still has a reasonable rural memory and lots of money helps. Wait a generation when 90% of the 450 million live in 30 large metro areas in the USA and the population will have a majority of voters none white or European in background. Sure for those that you feel that winning tomorrow with current tactics is worth the fight so be it for you. We are a young nation yet we have about 6-7 generations of being a democracy and we could see the outcomes totally lost in the near future by still thinking that 19th and 20th century procedures will work in the mid 21st century.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 20, 2016 10:00:55 GMT -6
Rabid gun owners or people who want to see the constitution upheld and protected? I think the latter and it happens that millions of people are just that gun owners and tons and tons of newbies into gun ownership, not because of a montra but because of the facts that have played out since Clinton was in office and his ban of AR's and magazines which had zero, repeat zero impact on gun crime period, just as those cities and states with uber tough gun contro,and it has done nothing for gun crime in those areas, but take away freedoms from citizens with legal authorization to procure such.
Tman the NRA and montra, what about the left telling Indian reservations you vote for republicans your BIA budget is gone? Or telling people that the Supreme Court issue that has arisen is one based out of racism by Mrs Clinton LOL.
The NRA has plenty of democrats who are members but care about their rights as well. The votes are there for all to see on any gun legislation voted on period. Facts do not lie. I could care less if 5 million more voted for Obama or not, he will be gone and now we listen to the two democratic nominees debate who is going to be tougher on guns and gun legislation?
Hillary on gun control facts: Click here for 25 full quotes by Hillary Clinton OR click here for Hillary Clinton on other issues. Reverse gun manufacturer immunity; let them get sued. (Nov 2015) Don't shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits:I vote that way. (Oct 2015) Rein in idea that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime. (May 2014) 2000: advocate for national gun registry; 2008: backed off. (May 2014) Balance lawful gun ownership & keeping guns from criminals. (Apr 2008) Give local police access to federal gun tracking info. (Apr 2008) Let states & cities determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008) Against illegal guns, crack down on illegal gun dealers. (Jan 2008) Backed off a national licensing registration plan on guns. (Jan 2008) Get assault weapons & guns off the street. (Jul 2007) Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre. (Apr 2007) FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others. (Apr 2007) Congress’ failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run. (Nov 2003) Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. (Sep 2000) Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000) License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000) Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999) Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999) Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999) Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999) Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999) Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons. (Sep 1996) Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005) Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004) Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology. (Aug 2000)
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 20, 2016 10:03:21 GMT -6
There is no secret as to what the above Obama measure is and was implemented to do, if a former FDIC employee makes such a statement and the fact Obama has already declared a veto on such.
You can take what the NRA says at will Tman, the facts are without them and their strong lobbying efforts through the years, our gun rights would look far different here in the US that is a fact.
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Post by bblwi on Feb 20, 2016 13:09:53 GMT -6
Sure you want the Constitution to be upheld, except, except now those strong Constitutionalists and traditionalists want an acting executive branch leader to not do his/her job for 13 months in bringing forth a nomination for the US Supreme Court. Principles based on issues or who you are talking with at the time are not real principles to base a free democracy on in my opinion. The stagnation advocates are stating let the people decide in the next election, well that was decided in the last one so that is a lame and biased argument in the least.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 20, 2016 20:20:16 GMT -6
Bryce mixing issues again? There is no constitutional issue with the senate not voting on a candidate , just like obama and Clinton did trying to fill a buster Bush's selection for the Supreme Court. In the confines of the rules and regulations set fourth.
Actually not, this was not a retirement or preconceived this was an untimely death of a justice with less than 10 months left for a 2 term president. Wonder how Americans feel about such? We shall see I guess.
What is wrong are justices being seated who should be non partisan and go by the constitution and past cases, not on their party affiliation, sadly many things are cited on such.
Scalia was a great Justice and many would like to see someone like him appointed.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 21, 2016 7:39:28 GMT -6
lol- TC accusing someone of mixing issues? hahaha
actually btw, it was MORE then 11 months when he died.
to state that a president should only serve 3 years, is ridiculus in the extreme
once again, you bury your head in the sand, and fail to understand that the GOP, and Geo W, were the greatest threat to the 2nd ever launched- THAT is a fact-
I find it amusing that you started this thread with a rant about our president, and then change completely that he doesn't matter- at least be consistent
as far as gun makers having a special place in law- why should they?
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Post by bblwi on Feb 21, 2016 13:24:17 GMT -6
My thoughts exactly Steve. TC roams all over the political and policy field and when we play ball on his diamond we are the bad guys. Real example of the personalities that submit to the fear and insecurity of the far right and want us all to be as fearful of our fellow man as they are.
Bryce
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