Free Market, Capitalism etc.

[bblwi]

The rate is income dependent so it is not fixed, but if you are in the 36% bracket your donations save you 36% on the dollar federally and 7% for the state. There is no flex in donation value, the flex is in the tax bracket

I would also disagree that growing 4,000 acres of corn is lower cost per acre than 400 acres. Cropping and beef cow operations where the economies of scale don't increase profits per unit so your example is a very poor one. The fact that margins are low is why the drive is to have more units. The 600 beef cow owner is most likely not any more efficient per calf sold he just has 400 more calves to sell than the farm with 200. How persons get to the larger size is the issue either inheritance, gifting, tax advantage or management. One of the advantages that large dairy operations have say 2-4-10 thousand cows is that $35,000 per year employees working 3000 hours per year with no benefits cost less than having those thousands of cows spread out over 100 farms each needing more family living income to maintain their families. Actual total cost per CWT is most times lower in the smaller operation they just don't have the volume to make enough for family living expenses.

Bryce

[trappnman]

you are right TC- I'm as free as any corporations to move my corporate offices offshore, and pay minimal taxes.

fur is low this year- since we are all equal- why isnt the gov subsidizing my fur?

after all, they do it for coal and oil

I anticipate your response

[bblwi]

With low fur prices there are a few very high on the food web that will make enormous profits and I am sure they are not interested in government intervention into a system that works for the wealthy. After all there are huge subsidies paid to EU and northern European ranch fur raisers and many feel that is too much intervention as that rewards the lower hanging fruit and not the few on the higher end.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman easy answer because fur is like looking for a grain of glass dust in 40 million tons of sand compaired to that of oil and other commodities.

the bigger the squeaky wheel is the more grease it gets been that way for along,long time.

Just like the wool subsidy was taken away and the bees would be out if not so important to our daily lives as well, no bees no pollination and not many fruits or veggies grown. So we keep that subsidy for the betterment of our food supply and country.

[trappnman]

no - easy answer is you like welfare if it benefits you, hate it if it benefits others

[trappincoyotes39]

No hate it for the reason that "some" lazy people in this world get a free ride off of tax payers and also the fact that list of "lazy" has gotten bigger through the years FACT.

We have more people on government Assitance today than any other time in our history.

Welfare was never setup for those with the ability to work and work to be found to sit at home and collect more than just food stamps.

I have never used the system all though a few people in y life those running the program locally would ask me to apply, the reason being? If they don't use their allotment of federal dollars they are afraid that money will go elsewhere. This is 100 percent fact, I was asked over and over again to please stop in and see if me and my family meet the qualification guidelines for such and to use it if we did. I finally told these 2 people I work 50-55 hrs per week and my wife does the same no need for us to look in to services we have no business trying to receive .

Just because someone fits the "guidelines" does not always make things right IMO of course.


The answer is simple for both ends Tman, close the loop holes for all involved and make it a lean running program that helps those that truly need it on both ends, that would be fine by me. But not one other the other. No sir.

[trappnman]

you do understand, that in quoting the above, those getting tax refunds, are included

and you do understand, that in quoting the above, you are including those on SS, on medicare, etc

and you do understand, your conclusion, is nonsense

[trappincoyotes39]

Forget the refunds and earned income credit, then we forget the tax loop holes for big business, we all pay the percentage and if your going to get govt Assitance and have the ability to do something, then something you shall do or no check that month. 10,15,20,25 hrs if not working and can you give back in your community for the check your getting.

Not non sense but common sense.

Again we have more people on public Assitance than any time in our countries history over the last 4 years.

I just wonder if we made those rules law how many would drop off the public Assitance ?

[trappnman]

again- you can't make up things, and expect people to believe them

remember the hub-bub you raised about most, majority, all on welfare are drug users?

how did that turn out in real life?

if you have actual figures- post them

otherwise- just hot air

[trappincoyotes39]

Again attack the mess anger instead of the message. Would not be real great PR now would it for the govt to come out and say 7 percent of those on pub,it Assitance are freeloaders now would it LOL. It would also force their hands to do something about it, just like after all th years of large farmers getting the bulk of the row crop subsidies, that forces the govt hands.

Look around and pay attention and one can clearly see able bodied people who can work but choose to take a different life style if not for ever at least a period of time. I know a lady that gets Assitance and she works 15 hrs a week, alway complains of being broke, I asked her why not get a FT job, she has no burdens on her kids are all grown she stated and I quote, " I was offered a FT job at 11.00 per hr but the hours just where wrong and that is 3.00 less than I make now" LOL. I said Quick math tells me that 11x40 is 440 per week versus 14x15 which equals 210 per week. Your talking an increase of 230 per week! Not to mention some benefits versus no benefits.

You see I and others when we want more we work for it. There is no denying a certain percentage of this country has fallen into the entitlement game and are content if not happy to do so. Again fit the guidelines and your in. Nothing deeper is looked upon, it is about resources nothing else for the most part.

[trappnman]

the difference is-

you choose to focus on, and fight the unwed mother

I choose to focus on, and fight the welfare corporations

[bblwi]

So what you are saying is a welfare recipient that receives say 30K worth of benefits per year is more detrimental or evil than a person who put their holding company offshore to avoid taxes yet still sells here, lives here and uses all the infrastructure someone else paid and pays for? I get your continued bashing of the lower end of our society speaks volumes about who you support and that is not a message versus messenger issue. That is an ideological belief and when propping up those from that end of the spectrum others on the other end are created as well.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Bryce your like Tman LOL. What I am clearly saying is if someone can get 30 grand in benefits and has the ability to work and receive those 30 grand should be doing something in return for such benefits besides just collecting those benefits because they fit the guidelines, after that no questions are asked of them. We should be asking more and expecting more from those capable of it is what I am saying.

Again you read what you want to read, I will state once again fine with those that have true need and little ability, but for those that work the system and I wish some would just admit it does happen, those are the people who should be able to repay those services with some kind of work for such really simple really.

[bblwi]

No I am not the same as Steve although we may think alike on many issues. You continue to insinuate that millions of our citizens who are lazy choose only to milk the system and never ever make an effort to work or to improve themselves. Having worked in the technical school environment for nearly 35 years where we run remedial courses, train people for entry level and higher jobs and help people juggle a lot of issues I know for at least in my area you are flat wrong and I don't know if that is due to bias or ignorance both can be fixed but bias takes much longer.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Yes I would say the number is larger than 20,000-50,000 nationwide. Again it is hard to have an honest discussion on an issue when some can't admit the system does have flaws and that "some" are surly using the system and that it has been going on for many,many years.

Again the system should be changed and things looked at deeper than just you make x therefore your entitled to y amount of benefits regardless.

Again you and I and many millions more at some point in Terri life could have fit the guidelines as well, some choose to take the beenfits other choose not to. They decide to work things out in their own way.

Some people I understand do not have the options to work things out and need the benefits these are not the people of the discussion, we are talking about the YES smaller amount of people that are in fact milking the system and what burden that places on others.

[trappnman]

What I am clearly saying is if someone can get 30 grand in benefits and has the ability to work and receive those 30 grand

list 1 person that is doing such

but hell yes, i'll agree- anyone getting 30,000 in free money, that is able bodied, should work

but that's not reality- and I dare you to prove it is- with facts

[bblwi]

I can see you don't know what forms the 30K I mentioned comes into, and yes I agree the systems are not working nearly as well as they could and to me the main reason for that is that people don't sit down to work on improvement they just argue for more or less and dis citizens in hopes of swaying others to continue to divide instead of improve.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I can name more than 1 believe me I know them and know what goes on on their house. My father who is/was? A lifelong voting democrat had neighbors who lived next door the husband worked for john Deere and had 5 kids, he divorced his wife so they could qualify for many of the benefits offered and he never left the house! Factual and true , their kids played the same game for years as well.

Another ai know she will not work because it would allow them not to receive food stamps, again 5 kids husband works makes decent money until you add on the 6 dependent a and they fit the mold for benefits, for years their kids got title 19, wic, food stamps etc. they could make it on their own if she would have taken at least 3 full time offerings I know of, but why work when you can sit at home and baby sit for cash and use the govt funds? I know she received some child support as well from a previous marriage but must not come isn't play with entitlements just as with taxes.

They had plenty of expandable cash with all the benefits she was getting and him making 34,000 per year. I know plenty of people with a combined income of 50,000 thousand and 3-5 kids that make it work without the entitlements.

[James]

TC, you should have been a politician. You prove very adept at using massaged statistics to serve your agenda. For instance:

"Again we have more people on public Assitance than any time in our countries history over the last 4 years."

Nice job! Don't mention the fact that we have more PEOPLE at any time in our history.

Jim

[bblwi]

So you know of two examples yet you don't know if they received 30K in benefits or not. When you are poor a $1,000 a month goes a long way. It is not the fault of the person that we set up a system that rewards her a better way to provide food for her children than working a job that can't cover those costs. I don't hear any candidates talking about making structural change to our human services agencies and that is one of our major problems. It is far easier to gripe than to work for change. Having worked with hundreds of businesses and quite detailed in financial analysis I could list many that milked the systems for a lot more than what food stamps are worth but then they are a better class of people than those you choose to dislike.

Bryce