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Defense
Nov 28, 2015 2:39:35 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 28, 2015 2:39:35 GMT -6
In WI there are a couple major differences in private vs public schools. There's no way to compare the quality of education in private schools because: Private schools have no limitations on establishing admission criteria. Are not required to adhere to federal or state anti-discrimination laws. Are not required to provide special education. May be sectarian. Except for health and safety laws, are not subject to any of the education laws that apply to public schools, including certification of teachers, days of attendance and participation in state assessments. linkSo again, I have no idea why our tax money should go to support private school in the form of vouchers. Pam
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Defense
Nov 28, 2015 7:39:04 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 7:39:04 GMT -6
Pam how many charter schools are there in the Midwest compaired to the coastal regions?
Also private schools offer some a choice to have their children taught and brought up in an environment they prefer, that is just called freedom. My dad went to a catholic school his entire k12 schooling. I never did because I didn't wan that burden placed on my parents getting me there and the added cost. In some regards it would have been nice though.
A cousin of mine has taught at a catholic grade school for 22 years now .again it is all about choices.
Bryce we are not talking a couple of families moving that is for sure! low income has lots of mobility. I have no problem with what Gov Thompson did and it helped your state! You don't cut that many people and think they are all still there? Sure som got reclassified but plenty left to surrounding states with less restrictions on welfare. Those that boarder Iowa and Minniesota not a tough move.
We need to remember not all people on welfare are legit and many of those who a not left for less hassles.
Bryce when was the last time you where through Dubuque,Iowa? Lots has changed in the last 20 years there. Much more change is in progress.
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Defense
Nov 28, 2015 13:10:22 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Nov 28, 2015 13:10:22 GMT -6
seriously TC?
hers something I read-
"Steve Gappa is the greatest guy in the world. I could only hope everyone could aspire to the heights he reaches"
oh yeah- authored by....steve gappa
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Defense
Nov 28, 2015 17:47:24 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 17:47:24 GMT -6
Nothing I read Tman I have seen it first hand and if you think there aren't plenty of free loaders on the govt payroll well then you don't . The facts are their are all about the guidelines meet those and your in, they won't dig too deep either,
That is why more states need to be like Wisconsin and mandate work for pay. If you have the ability to work you should be doing something bottom line.
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Defense
Nov 29, 2015 9:34:34 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Nov 29, 2015 9:34:34 GMT -6
it blows me away,. you defend oil company welfare- and rail against food stamps.
Walker won't win another term- is political value is nil, and he won't get the Koch bros millions to buy the next election
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Defense
Nov 29, 2015 14:37:59 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 29, 2015 14:37:59 GMT -6
I rail against those on the public dole that should be doing something for what they are getting, not those who do not have the mental or physical ability to work!
But again even the mentally challenged have places to go to work and feel self worth and those are funded in part by our government, we should be doing that for people with far more capacity than those with true mental disabilities. Instead of hangin on the front porch with cell,phone in hand wasting the day away in low income housing and hanging out for hours down at the local convienance store.
You need help great, I also know those in low income that work 20-25 hrs each and every week trying to do something these people I have zero problem with.
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Defense
Nov 29, 2015 15:00:10 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 29, 2015 15:00:10 GMT -6
"Pam how many charter schools are there in the Midwest compaired to the coastal regions?"
I don't know but in WI charter schools are under the auspices of the Department of Instruction just like the public schools and funded by taxpayer money and Private schools are not.
Pam
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Defense
Nov 29, 2015 16:11:57 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 29, 2015 16:11:57 GMT -6
Here in WI there Charter schools is a generic term. There can be and are public and private Charter Schools in WI. One of the reasons there is greater difficulty in comparing public and private schools in WI is that private schools are not held to the same accountability standards as are public schools even though they can now receive tax payer funds without conforming or measuring up as the tax payer funds are funneled through the students and not the school systems.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 30, 2015 18:22:29 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 30, 2015 18:22:29 GMT -6
"There can be and are public and private Charter Schools in WI." I don't think that's correct Bryce, I read that in WI there are 243 Charter schools and so far every one is a public school. AB 549 could have changed that, but it wasn't passed far as I know?
My big issue with vouchers is solely that there is no method of honestly comparing private school education to public school wince they don't have to follow any established standards. Not to mention they can pick and choose students they want.
Pam
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Post by trappnman on Dec 1, 2015 7:46:50 GMT -6
so you have a problem with someone collecting an extra $500 bucks a year-
but not oil executives getting million dollar salaries because of billion dollar subsidies?
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Defense
Dec 2, 2015 20:10:13 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 2, 2015 20:10:13 GMT -6
Pam here schools fall,under the mo dept of education. Your correct private schools can teach to their values but they must also teach to state standards as well. Every state varies on this subject but they still have to take some form of standardized test. It doesn't have to be the state one but they do take some form of testing they do not have to release those results except to parents who are enrolled in the school.
If people would think that they are not getting a good education how many would spend the money sending to private schools?
Tman in many cases we are talking far more than 500 bucks a year! Let's take that 500 for arguments sake and say we run a 5 percent rate on those who should not be on govt Assitance, that equals 2 million people? Take 2 million x's 500 a good chunk of change.
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Defense
Dec 2, 2015 23:05:41 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Dec 2, 2015 23:05:41 GMT -6
Why would you not send your children to a private school if someone else pays for it even if the school was comparable or poorer? Fee lunches are wanted by many. In MO you stated all schools need to be tested by the state. That is not true in WI. There are different standards. We have some public schools who are doing very poorly for sure, but we also have a lot of non educational issues in those areas as well. Pam I will check on the term Charter as our son taught at a private school in Milwaukee for two years that he called a charter school That may not have been the exact name but I will check that out. We have public charter schools near us, or should I say had. Our LEADS Charter public school 3 miles from our house just got closed and sold due to a whole host of reasons, but being able to cut two positions and put more K-4 grads in each class room was a major part of that decision. We will watch how the youth preform with an average class size of about 31 instead of 24-25.
Bryce
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 3, 2015 0:46:13 GMT -6
"If people would think that they are not getting a good education how many would spend the money sending to private schools?"
IMHO Some people assume that just because their school teaches religion it must be academically sound as well. And if it's free so much the better.
"In WI Seventy-three percent of students now attending private schools using a voucher were already enrolled in a private school last year. The three voucher programs in Milwaukee, Racine and statewide enroll 29,683 students, according to results of the official state headcount in September. That makes Wisconsin a leading state when it comes to the number of students attending private, MOSTLY RELIGIOUS schools with the help of taxpayer-funded tuition subsidies. If those private schools were a public school system, it would be the second largest in Wisconsin after Milwaukee Public Schools, topping the Madison Metropolitan School District, which enrolls just over 27,000 students this year."
Pam
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Post by James on Dec 3, 2015 4:27:07 GMT -6
A lot of church-sponsored private "schools" are evolution deniers. That's hardly what I would call academically qualified.
Beats me why some "conservatives" want taxpayer subsidies for private schools. We sent our daughter to a private school, but we paid for it ourselves, we didn't have our hands out for a tax goodie from a government that finds it so easy to transfer wealth from one person to another.
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 3, 2015 6:13:55 GMT -6
Wondering how many religious schools are getting money from the federal govt? Doubt many are In all reality. Charter schools setup because of very poor and really under performing public schools. Another option for those in areas where many public schools have lost their accreditation to hand out diplomas.
I agree goes far deeper than just an education many other factors involved but an education is essential to learning and if they are not caught early in life the odds are really down hill for there in them engaging in much education as an older teen.
Pam I don't know many who have that mind set really, but again people have the choice to educate their children either in a public or private school, if most are willing to pay the bill. On avg teachers in private schools make less and their retirement is not as good as many public jobs and there is no tenure in a private school setting either, so many teach their because of their religious beliefs and sacrifice money, job security and retirement in doing so.
Again my cousin has taught in a catholic school for 20 years and in talking with her the same challenges exist there as in public schools.
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Post by bblwi on Dec 3, 2015 9:36:02 GMT -6
Private charter schools many times are not established due to or because of poorer public schools in the area. They are established as a business to make money, hopefully to educate youth, many if not all who are subsidized with tax payer dollars to attend. Our son taught in a private run Charter school that was created as a for profit private school and was run and managed by Turkish administrators and functioned as a way to bring Turkish immigrants to the area with jobs and become citizens. Not any of the administrators had education backgrounds and most spoke very poor English. The teachers they hired like our son had to and did all the classroom management and the curriculum as well. He taught middle school there two years as he was working to establish a work record, low pay, no benefits and there was no general testing that went to state levels. He soon discovered the actual motivation for the school and left.
Bryce
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Defense
Dec 3, 2015 16:13:52 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Dec 3, 2015 16:13:52 GMT -6
lets run 10% or 50% or 100% or make up any number you choose- seems to be all the rage this year in some circles
the fact is, all the "welfare" programs- are a pittance to corporate welfare- and that's a fact, jack!
now, if you were against both- great-
but you pick and choose and try to justify
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 5, 2015 7:02:42 GMT -6
A pittance ok if you say so. Add in crop subsidies and food programs in thei country and we are not talking a pittance at all.
Let's do across the board cuts to them all then sound good? We can the start paying off the 20 trillion in debt we will have by next year when Obama leaves office. Things will be tougher for a period of years but we will cut into the deficit and while we are at it, let congress pass a new amendment to the constituent that says the US govt must pass a budget that is balanced and zero deficit spending what so ever!
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Defense
Dec 5, 2015 11:32:57 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Dec 5, 2015 11:32:57 GMT -6
So you are saying or believing that if the WH is won by the GOP and the Congress remains GOP that we will quickly balance budgets, pay off national debt? I find your thoughts and insights very narrowly focused and or foolish. We could eliminate the total social aspect of our federal government programs and with current tax revenues be running budget deficits for the foreseeable future. If you have a debt reduction program that works with that scenario I am sure Trump and others would be very willing to hear what you have to offer. I guess the real part that bothers me the most is that this becomes extremely subjective and bigoted as well. You dislike the payments for those you dislike or feel less worthy and champion subsidies and credits for those that you want to see get them. That is politics as we know it today and when you adopt those basis for your political policies you will win and or lose based on elections. We are rapidly going past the time when a few with many dollars are going to be able to control the electorate when they continue to lose ground economically. Here in WI the average household income in 2015 is lower than it was in 2009, sooner or later those truths will show up at the ballot box and even those of us that are more Centrist and many will not enjoy the outcome. How valuable is a job when you are treated as a parasite when you show up and offered less to do so. There is ethics in work and I enjoyed working and still do I just feel that ethics should also be part of how those with less are treated and perceived. As the director of stewardship at our church 9 out of the last 16 years we are grateful for the few that have the incomes to support our ministries the problem however is those couple dozen families can and do make life very miserable for dozens of other families. Even God can't win the hearts of those who feel they are owed more than others.
Bryce
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Defense
Dec 5, 2015 17:33:44 GMT -6
Post by bobbrennan1 on Dec 5, 2015 17:33:44 GMT -6
Why is it that the Koch brothers get all of this attention? The deems have backers just the same maybe more such as George solos and bill gates!
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