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Defense
Nov 18, 2015 21:04:01 GMT -6
Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 18, 2015 21:04:01 GMT -6
I would prefer to hire the better employee! I am self employed so I am not familiar with that system so how do 2 people share a job and they both get full time benefits? Also doesn't it make sense that nothing is free if 2 people receive benifits their wages would have to be adjusted down to compensate? I also believe that when a person is starting a job they start at the bottom as far as their skill level goes so when you get someone off government assistance they most likely have a lesser skill level or lack the desire to work which in the end means a lesser wage, I don't believe that long term you can motivate with money!
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Defense
Nov 19, 2015 8:02:09 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 19, 2015 8:02:09 GMT -6
No they share the benefit and thus pay 50% of the portion of benefits such as HC. The other ones such as pension, etc. are typically based on salary and so if you make 50% of the full salary you only get 50% of the full compensation. There are some additional administrative costs having two versus 1 employee but to keep those they want they make those choices. Three of the members of our church work these types of career jobs and some even flux from 50-50 to say 70-30 based on family situations etc. Who would not want to hire only the BEST employees but if we are not willing or able to work with and train more limited employees they will remain unemployed and maybe in our human service systems. For many it is easier and lower cost to gripe about taxes and lazy people than to spend the time and effort to help them move forward.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 19, 2015 14:24:21 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 19, 2015 14:24:21 GMT -6
Bryce when govenor Thompson brought the idea up in Wisconsin we heard what? Babies will starve, people will go hungry, we can't do this to people expect them to further themselves etc,etc.
What Wisconsin did was shift a massive amount of lazy people to surrounding states where the protocol and expectations where far less or non exsisitant. It has saved your state of Wisconsin a lot of money since the inception I would be willing to bet.
We can define able bodied if you can work then you must do community service, how many mentally challenged people work every day in special centers doing jobs like blister picking nuts and bolts, assembling mailboxes and other jobs? I know of these centers and the work they do, if they can be working so can many others who because of a system they can manipulate work far less than they should or could. Again not 100 percent but enough the laws for assistance should be looked at and changed, it would save tax payers dollars.
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Defense
Nov 19, 2015 17:25:57 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 19, 2015 17:25:57 GMT -6
I am more familiar with that program than you are I am sure as the tech school I taught at was heavily involved in training and child care etc. As stated above the employers had difficulty working with labor that was below their standards at the time. We thought it would work better because the economy was booming in the mid 90s and most places were offering signing bonuses just to serve burgers. Several firms lobbied the legislature to offer higher subsidies to the firms that employed these workers but that did not happen so they backed off and out. It may have been smart to offer them more funds but our legislature did not agree to support their request. My peers worked with several dozen of these work to welfare students and I got to meet and know some of them so I find your continuing bashing of the less successful disheartening and probably a good reason why the divide continues and the rhetoric builds.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 19, 2015 19:07:47 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 19, 2015 19:07:47 GMT -6
Bryce the continued bashing is part of the problem, we must all admit there are people that use and work the systems put out there period.
We want to help those that really need it and get rid of those who work the system.
Many will bash those who are working the system, the problem is some do not want to see the systems are being abused, we can debate by how much and what cost but we all know people who have done such. Been going on for 50 years.
I also know prior to the enactment of work for welfare Wisconisn had some of the very highest welfare payments of any Midwest state and your taxes to cover such where going up at big inclines to cover the welfare cost.
That trend as since changed has it not?
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Defense
Nov 19, 2015 19:28:04 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 19, 2015 19:28:04 GMT -6
No the welfare payments are still high but not as high by comparison, but high enough so that when budgets needed to be cut they cut a billion out of public education k-12 and then the university system for 300 million and our DNR and also wanted to get rid of the natural resources board and the state ag board. So no the cuts came from other places more so than welfare. Private school vouchures increased by 100 million at the expense of further cut this budget in public K-12 WI was the first state to use vouchures 24 years ago to lessen the gap between inner city Afro American youth and non minorities. Today 24 years later and more money being shifted to vouchures the gap in WI has widened and is among the worst in the nation, but our current administration would not want to deal with facts when it comes to policy and politics.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 20, 2015 20:04:25 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 20, 2015 20:04:25 GMT -6
Well some studies show,your state benefited nicely from the program's put in place against the national average.
Also you want to see bad education look at KC and St Louis which was unacreditited and also,Indian reservations far worse off than most all other public schools.
KC has been through 5 superintendents in the last 16 years. That is around a 3 year avg stay!
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Defense
Nov 22, 2015 18:23:02 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 22, 2015 18:23:02 GMT -6
We hopefully are not aspiring to race downhill that fast with our public education systems here in WI.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 22, 2015 20:18:27 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 22, 2015 20:18:27 GMT -6
I hope not either for your sake. Yet we think by throwing more money at these large urban districts that some how money will solve what ill's them LOL. Not going to happen, it starts with the home and what they receive from parents first and foremost, until we can change that, these districts are doomed to stay status quo. KC has a budget of 328 million dollars. Same with the Indian reservations things need to change at home before any of those schools really start to get serious about educating their children.
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Defense
Nov 23, 2015 7:07:51 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Nov 23, 2015 7:07:51 GMT -6
He stated we have a budget deficit largly in part to military spending just not true.
of course that is true-
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Defense
Nov 23, 2015 7:09:21 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Nov 23, 2015 7:09:21 GMT -6
What Wisconsin did was shift a massive amount of lazy people to surrounding states where the protocol and expectations where far less or non exsisitant. It has saved your state of Wisconsin a lot of money since the inception I would be willing to bet.
interesting stats- source? (me being PC)
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Defense
Nov 23, 2015 13:00:49 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 23, 2015 13:00:49 GMT -6
Here's the problem with vouchers for education
"Seventy-five percent of eligible students who applied for taxpayer-funded subsidies to attend private and religious schools this fall in the statewide voucher program already attend private schools, according to data released Tuesday."
All we're doing in WI is shifting funds from public education to private schools. It's not inner city and poor kids who could benefit from more attention and smaller class sizes either. It's going to people who already could afford to pay their way out of public schools. Most of the voucher schools are religion based, and many are not accessible to public transportation. Poor families just don't even have a way to get their kids to those schools even if they would get accepted, which isn't a certainty since they all have quotas.
"Rep. Gordon Hintz (D-Oshkosh) said the original justification of the voucher program was to give students attending struggling public schools the opportunity to attend private schools. Instead it has created a system in which taxpayers are paying for private education, he said."
Pam
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Defense
Nov 25, 2015 8:11:15 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 25, 2015 8:11:15 GMT -6
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Defense
Nov 25, 2015 8:11:40 GMT -6
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 25, 2015 8:11:40 GMT -6
Pam the education of children is the most important thing is it not?
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Defense
Nov 26, 2015 0:38:28 GMT -6
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 26, 2015 0:38:28 GMT -6
Obviously education of children is important. But public schools are the way most children get their education, at least in the midwest. Why should we want to be like southern states where the rich send their kids to private schools because public schools are not very good. In our midwest society if people want to send their kids to alternatives to public schools fine, but let them pay for it and not at the expense of public schools. Why should we use vouchers taking money from public schools to pay for private schools? Up until now WI public schools have had good reputations. My kids did just fine in public schools and I don't want my tax money going to private schools.
Pam
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Defense
Nov 26, 2015 6:09:04 GMT -6
Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 26, 2015 6:09:04 GMT -6
Than shouldn't public schools improve to the point they can compete with private schools Pam?
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Defense
Nov 26, 2015 8:35:00 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 26, 2015 8:35:00 GMT -6
In WI the public schools continue to out preform the private charter and religious based schools even with the recent defunding and the encouragement of sending more students from middle income non minority families to spike their accountability and test results. The public-private argument here in WI at least is not a quality argument as much as an ideological argument and between adults and not minor students who don't have a voice.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 26, 2015 9:02:08 GMT -6
Post by bblwi on Nov 26, 2015 9:02:08 GMT -6
I reviewed most of the data you pasted here and I don't see a great number of those who left WI for another state. They were more likely to have qualified for a different assistance program or not qualify due to income levels than leave. Also why is it our problem if we choose to be proactive about getting able bodied persons to work and other states choose to continue with their older entrenched systems. A family or two moving to your town is not indicative of massive exodus of welfare recipients. One thing poor people have in common the world over is lack of or poor mobility. That is one reason they many times are concentrated in small areas. It takes money to be able to move and set up stakes in other places.
Bryce
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Defense
Nov 27, 2015 4:16:10 GMT -6
Post by James on Nov 27, 2015 4:16:10 GMT -6
Than shouldn't public schools improve to the point they can compete with private schools Pam? That's an unfair and unrealistic expectation. Private schools can pick and choose, the economically advantaged and academically gifted. They can strictly enforce discipline and kick you out if you don't follow the rules. Public schools are pretty much stuck with every student, including those who were kicked out of private schools. There is no discipline to be found in public schools in our litigious and disrespectful society. Jim
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Defense
Nov 27, 2015 19:24:58 GMT -6
Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 27, 2015 19:24:58 GMT -6
Maybe that should change! Maybe when someone complains to us about their rotten spoiled kid being picked on by the teacher we should tell the parents about rules!
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