|
Post by redsnow on Nov 1, 2015 6:37:06 GMT -6
It's my understanding that at any kind of organized "gun show", you will be required to fill out the ATF form, and do an NICS check.
Years ago that wasn't required.
About the only "legal" way to avoid an NICS background check is buying from an individual. Of course guns are bought and sold at work and job sites around the country every day.
If you get right down to it, that's probably where a lot of stolen guns end up. Some dope-head breaks into my house, steals everything in sight, takes it across the state line and sells a $500 rifle to guy in the restaurant parking lot for $100.
Not sure how it works in other areas, here if a DNR officer stops you and you have possession of a firearm, there is a very good chance he will call in the guns SN, and find out if it's been reported stolen.
It's similar to trying to keep alcohol out of the hands of anyone under 21, if they have money, someone will buy it for them. It's illegal, but they'll find a way. More laws won't stop that either.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 1, 2015 7:40:10 GMT -6
Pam it would not just be gun shows it would be ANY and all private gun sales. If you buy guns wholesale and resell for a profit a background check must be done period.
So gun shows get more traffic thru the doors but even dealers must do a background check if they are a licensed dealer gun show or not.
If this concerns you write your congressional people and tell them to better fund the NICS program and tell them to hold states more accountable for transfer of information those are the 2 big areas that need fixing.
Then if you want every private gun sale background checked let's add more $$$$$ to NICS and then write up laws as where the liability stands on such private to private sales. To make things crystal clear on these sales types.
Tray all for that ID no beer or booze with a background check any DUI and you cannot buy any form of alcohol not even cough medicine!
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 1, 2015 11:45:46 GMT -6
So how supportive of increased dollars to the NICS will the NRA and staunch gun advocates be? If it was merely a mater of staff and dollars those persons and staff would be there by now in my opinion. I think one of the reasons I would not totally object to a private gun sales or trade is that under current regulations and laws we don't know how the person acquired the firearm they are selling. This way we could do a couple background checks on the transaction. Another way the gun control advocates could weasel in on gun control is to make transfers and ownership of firearms cost preventative. We currently reduce our 1st amendment rights considerably by controlling the media through cost and price and privilege in many ways. If one of our bill of rights can be economically infringed upon another is a potential as well down the road.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by James on Nov 1, 2015 17:16:43 GMT -6
How would more back-ground checks prevent your friend's son from buying a gun, Pam?
Jim
|
|
|
Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 1, 2015 17:18:54 GMT -6
As with most every thing I feel the problems in our society are mostly from the citizens we all know some one who breaks the law it doesn't matter if it is your buddy who smokes dope or violates hunting or trapping laws,has an illegal gun,or steals stuff from work,or drinks and drives, or any number of other crimes and in most cases we do nothing about it! All you have to do is look at Hollywood and see how many of them openly admit drug use and there is no blow back it doesn't hurt their careers! Look at the athletes who use steroids no problem the league may suspend them but there is no pressure to go further than that no arrest of the supplier in most cases all so we can watch these morons hit a ball farther or hit harder on Sunday afternoon! To end my rant will be hand guns, the pieces of crap useing hand guns in a crime should get automatic life in prison minimum! Oh I'm sure at least half of you are thinking oh no you can't do that those poor boys can't be discarded like that, my answer Yes they can you wouldn't keep a dog that bites so why deal with scum like that?is it that you think that they will make great parents and raise good children? or add any thing to society? In my opinion next time you see the neighbor kids raising hell do some thing about it before they become adults raising hell!
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 1, 2015 20:04:48 GMT -6
Bryce the govt needs to come up with more for NICS as it is a public safety issue correct? It is about money and also good datat being passed on and that datat takes time which translates into money spent.
The shear number of calls they receive and the computers and data banks are costly but to ensure public safety we have come along way since the Brady bill and the 3 day waiting period, we can do better when we think for the overall budget would not be a big deal, yet all the left wants to do is push more control upon us. Forget new gun laws and do PR for NICS and properly and timely data from the states.
Put .10 cents on every box of ammo and 1.00 on every gun sale and we will have the money to do more and better checks with an even higher rate of accuracy, then are we willing to stop the rhetoric of placing more laws on law abiding citizens?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 1, 2015 22:45:02 GMT -6
Why don't you contact the NRA with your additional tax idea on ammo and gun sales and see how receptive they are?
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 1, 2015 23:00:42 GMT -6
The government miss manages enough money don't give them any more!
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 2, 2015 5:37:48 GMT -6
Bryce betting they would be more receptive if it meant stopping the left from trying to enact tougher laws each time a shooting takes place. Again no one is going to bat 100 percent.
Maybe turn NICS over to a private IT company with ATF involvement? Contract this out for a period of years?
I know we have went from hand written forms to forms on a lap top and helps to catch mistakes and such. So the investments are making a difference again as well.
Yet we have no answer on a better background check meaning then end of talks on more and stricter gun control? lol
|
|
|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 2, 2015 17:45:08 GMT -6
"How would more back-ground checks prevent your friend's son from buying a gun, Pam?"
It would prevent HIM from buying a gun at a gun show, and likely some others like him. In my friend's case,he is more of a power of suggestion guy, meaning he may not go out seeking a gun but he's immature and naive and is involved with a woman who is into drugs and always needs money from him. If she suggested he buy a gun, he'd go to a local gun show and get one. It would plant the seed of an idea and then it would obsess him until he got a gun by any other means. It's scary.
Pam
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 2, 2015 19:56:29 GMT -6
Pam he could look in the want ads and find a gun for sale as well. So what does gun shows have to do with it?
Or he may ask a friend of a friend to find him a cheap gun on the street. The point being we will never have a fail safe for violence, no legislation will equal to such EVER, the gun show is just the excuse nothing more or less and will not change his makeup or if he feels the need to harm others it could be done in so many ways, we all know that.
|
|
|
Post by redsnow on Nov 4, 2015 6:39:20 GMT -6
Pam you bring up a very good point, drugs! I don't have the stats, I'm sure the government does, but more than likely dope is involved in nearly every one of the mass shootings.
No one in their right mind is going to intentionally kill or hurt someone without a reason.
Here again, in a way I sort of blame the media. It's their job to report the news, but when 2 pricks go into a school and raise hell, it seems every time, the 2 morons are almost "famous". In a way, they are planting hate. And somewhere across the country 2 other brats are thinking of doing something similar. Guess it boils down to family values, if they'd been taken out behind the wood shed a time or 2, maybe they'd have a little bit of respect. You can't stop ignorance.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Nov 4, 2015 8:03:22 GMT -6
this link only goes through 2001- www.vpc.org/studies/wgunint.htmbut shows 71`% of the mass shootings up to that time, were with legally purchased guns. I have no doubt the same is true from that date to now, but others can look that up- or I will if you doubt what I say I agree with TRay on the mental health- but at the same time- conservatives want to, and have, cut such funding every mass shooter drinks milk- lets ban milk! or, we can stay closer to the issue- and ENFORCE THE LAWS WE HAVE!
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 4, 2015 12:13:26 GMT -6
Why does it have to be conditional? You want the left to back off because more money is use to hire staff and prosecute gun violations. It should be a good idea on its own merit. The left may well support the increased funds for public safety and that is probably why the gun advocates do not come out in favor of taxing for more safety. I have not heard one gun advocate ask for more funds to hire more public safety and security workers to control gun violence. What they have advocated is more guns in the hands of citizens to defend themselves against gun violators. That is a far, far philosophical difference to what you are proposing and you want concessions to go with it.
Bryce
|
|
TRay
Demoman...
Posts: 107
|
Post by TRay on Nov 4, 2015 13:35:04 GMT -6
I think it's wrong to try and turn this into a political issue!! Money's not the biggest issue in dealing with mental illness, I've got family that work with people dealing with mental issues and they seem to have good funding.
If you have people who don't want to be helped there is nothing in place to deal with most of these people. Also a social issue as many times parents are in denial that there kid has issues thus not seeking help that is needed.
There was report out a couple years ago showing how many illegal guns were being smuggled into the US from Mexico, and many were fully automatic. Don't remember the number but it was shocking. If your a bad person who wants to do bad things finding a gun will never be a issue in this country.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 4, 2015 20:00:33 GMT -6
17 trillion in debt where do we cut and where do we add? ......................
Bryce we have more cops in schools, we have more safety added to schools, What I am talking about is more money used for a better background check that wouldn't add time at the point of purchase but better data and that would help. Yet every time a shooting of more than 1-3 people takes place then it is all about gun bannings,magazine bans, etc,etc.
We will never rid this country of violence so why worry about the rhetoric the left wants to keep pushing about banning guns,limiting ammo, taking away high capacity magazines etc?
Up,until the 90's when gun laws where less we never had such shootings, yet a sector wants to keep blaming the guns, the manufactures of guns, etc. Yet this is a people problem not a gun problem.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Nov 5, 2015 7:42:58 GMT -6
don't make it a political issue?
good words- and I agree-
but the facts are, that overall on the national level, help for mental illness has been repeatly cut, and those that voted to do so, are , 99% at least, from one party.
don't you find it ironic, that those calling for more mental health help, are those cutting the budget?
and as far as making non political- read TCs above post, and see what type of debate he proposes- again, ignoring the burniong fact that the last 2 assaults- the SC decision that Bush opposed, and the Brady bill- came from who?
talk is cheap, actions are what worry me.
fine smokescreen the right has
|
|
TRay
Demoman...
Posts: 107
|
Post by TRay on Nov 5, 2015 15:20:51 GMT -6
That's the typical liberal solution to all problems, throw more money at it. Keep doing that and your going to have a lot more people having mental problems, trust me I know? . My taxes are high enough. Again like I said before money is not the reason this problem exists, and to try and blame a party for this problem is grossly false. The problem lies in the fact that many people believe that all people with mental illness can be rehabbed or cured with drugs and allowed to return to society. I know that a large percentage of our jail/prison population are there due to some type of mental illness, yet most are released back into society supposedly cured.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Nov 5, 2015 17:54:17 GMT -6
and that's the typical conservative answerr- to propose solutions- but not implement them because of lack of funding. Oh, btw, I was in the mental health field for many years- I'm quite familiar with the concerns and problems, and laso know about the fight for funding to implement
so who pays for those released from jail , that suffer mental illiness?
points of light?
trickle down?
|
|
TRay
Demoman...
Posts: 107
|
Post by TRay on Nov 5, 2015 19:19:21 GMT -6
Money seems to be the solution to all political problems, but just like in real life there is never enough of it. Going to have to cut from somewhere, and the whole cycle repeats itself. I know for a fact that school systems are more than adequately funded here, policys and procedures have been the problems that have reduced the amount of resources getting to those that need it.
|
|