|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 21, 2014 16:01:08 GMT -6
of the taxpayers time and money can these guys waste?
Now Boehner filed a lawsuit against The President for the ACHA, voting 50 times and failing wasn't enough? Arpaio filed a lawsuit about the immigration policy after he lost in Federal Court about profiling. What is wrong with this country's politicians?
Pam
|
|
|
Post by Jarhead620 on Nov 22, 2014 7:17:13 GMT -6
Both the far right and the far left have gone off the rails and never the twain shall meet.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 22, 2014 19:34:00 GMT -6
Pam what will granting immunity to 5 million illegals cost us?
|
|
|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 23, 2014 2:07:47 GMT -6
I'd think it would add to the coffers since they are already here and will end up paying taxes instead of getting paid in cash under the table like some do now. Some might even sign up for health insurance :-) Cheers, Pam
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 23, 2014 10:28:38 GMT -6
Some might sign up for food stamps, Medicaid, low income housing as well.............. Once in the system they are afforded the same rights many others use both good and bad ...........
Why have an illegal policy if we won't stick to it? if your granting millions amnesty why not another 5 million in 10-15 more years? hang around long enough and get a free pass?
Also how many other these illegals will actually make enough income to pay into the tax roll versus those who will get more back by April 15th versus truly paying in? So we can show a positive increase in federal taxes?..................
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 23, 2014 14:16:02 GMT -6
So you are justifying a 51st attempt to block the ACA because you don't like what happened on another totally different issue? You are what I would call the poster child of why we have the government we do have today. You can't separate issues and vote without bringing your bias or prejudice which makes principle based voting or governing impossible.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 23, 2014 19:50:46 GMT -6
So Bryce for the record your fine with amnesty to 5 million illegals?
This issue is about political gain pure and simple and while that takes place the rest of Americans get to pay for it?
If we grant 5 million people such amnesty you honestly think it will not cost us more money in many facets? the outcome will be a positive cash flow because of the extra taxation taken in?
|
|
|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 24, 2014 1:38:36 GMT -6
Exactly what about this sounds like it will cost taxpayers more money?
"Undocumented immigrants must come forward and register, submit biometric data, pass criminal background and national security checks, and pay fees and penalties before they will be eligible for a provisional legal status. Agricultural workers and those who entered the United States as children would be eligible for the same program. Individuals must wait until the existing legal immigration backlogs are cleared before getting in line to apply for lawful permanent residency (i.e. a “green card”), and ultimately United States citizenship. Consistent with current law, people with provisional legal status will not be eligible for welfare or other federal benefits, including subsidies or tax credits under the new health care law." Those applying for green cards must pay their taxes, pass additional criminal background and national security checks, register for Selective Service (where applicable), pay additional fees and penalties, and learn English and U.S. civics. As under current law, five years after receiving a green card, individuals will be eligible to apply for U.S. citizenship like every other legal permanent resident. " Earned citizenship for DREAMers. Children brought here illegally through no fault of their own by their parent will be eligible for earned citizenship. By going to college or serving honorably in the Armed Forces for at least two years, these children should be given an expedited opportunity to earn their citizenship. The President’s proposal brings these undocumented immigrants out of the shadows."
or
"The President’s proposal provides tools for employers to ensure a legal workforce by using federal government databases to verify that the people they hire are eligible to work in the United States. Penalties for hiring undocumented workers are significantly increased, and new penalties are established for committing fraud and identity theft. The new mandatory program ensures the privacy and confidentiality of all workers’ personal information and includes important procedural protections. Mandatory electronic employment verification would be phased in over five years with exemptions for certain small businesses.
Combat fraud and identity theft. The proposal also mandates a fraud‐resistant, tamper‐resistant Social Security card and requires workers to use fraud‐and tamper‐resistant documents to prove authorization to work in the United States. The proposal also seeks to establish a voluntary pilot program to evaluate new methods to authenticate identity and combat identity theft."
Pam
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 24, 2014 5:41:54 GMT -6
Pam nothing of the White House press release states anything about much, except a process of time and resources to make people legal, where are the figures as to what percent age will take advantage of govt public assistence once a legal citizen? How about those that will figure into earned income credit and get back many,many times over taxes paid in? I do not look AG this as a Mexican thing I look at this as illegals becoming legal for what reason they want to or are forced to? So if you feel none will use the system to their advantage so be it. if you feel the taxation on 5 million will help,out gpvt so be it,mI guess time will tell. I guess every decade we can take another 5 million. And offer them the same deal as the first 5 million........... it would only be fair"...............
You see this is a ploy for votes, the Latino vote remember we have a big election comming up in less than two years now, I find it alarming that the a president feels this is the time to exert excutove order on an issue such as this? if this was such a major issue for him when first elected and control of congress he could have gotten this passed with congress I would think? Instead durring the next 18 months we wil see much more strong arming from President Obama and will leave much work for the next in comming president to make some chnages on various issue I feel.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Nov 24, 2014 7:25:52 GMT -6
strong arming? anyone that pays any attention to the news sees-
the GOP saying "we need to get a comprehensive immigration bill passed."
then in the next breath- "oh, Obama said he agrees- now hes just wrecked any chance'
Bush had more executive orders than any recent president if not all presidents- and now you complain?
congress won't ado anything- then EO is within his power-
this new "Do Nothing" party makes the past Do Nothing parties look like over achievers.
tell me TC- why do oyu feel, this new congress should do nothing for 2 more years ?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 24, 2014 11:19:28 GMT -6
Never stated I was for 5 million getting amnesty, you just are assuming I am because I called you on not being willing to separate issues and work on solutions. If the newly elected GOP controlled Congress wants to just do what they have for 2, 4 or 6 years then I give the President a lot of credit for exerting his powers. There are far few Democrats in office now that will lose their jobs because of his actions. Now the GOP in the house wants to work on not funding the immigration acts. Sure did not work when the Bush Administration took us into two wars without a financial plan so I don't see how that will play here either. If we would have addressed immigration in the late 90s when UE was 3-4% and got started we would be 15-20 years into this issue with some real progress. I just don't understand the GOP or the Conservatives that think that spending billions on a wall is going to stop illegal immigration into the US. We can't stop drugs with all kinds of funds and agencies and now a fence will do the job? What a riot to even think that. The GOP who hire millions of illegals know it won't work and it is just as much a political jester as some form of amnesty. I personally feel that a plan that includes amnesty, costs, fees, language and a step process makes sense also with deportation capabilities as well. It actually would be cheaper to put a tracker chip in every Latin American and track them if we really wanted to get serious about controlling immigration from Mexico, central and Southern America.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 24, 2014 17:35:46 GMT -6
"...where are the figures as to what percent age will take advantage of govt public assistence once a legal citizen.""
If you read it carefully, the executive order does NOT automatically make illegal immigrants citizens. It gives ones that qualify green cards. Only after 5 years, effort on their part, and paying taxes and a fine can they apply for citizenship.
Pam
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 24, 2014 21:31:49 GMT -6
It also has much more teeth to those that have not arrived or have been here for long or have records that can be traced.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 25, 2014 5:47:32 GMT -6
Pam either way amnesty is given what is the message?
We keep hearing the word pay taxes, so they pay for 5 years without filing a tax form? With a green card most will be in a tax bracket that assure them a refund at the end of the year so what does paying taxes have to do with it? The govt plays with 1,600 or so of their payrolls to then give back 2,000 plus per person? SS and Medicaid sure but real taxation how about for 5 years we tax them at a different rate being they are not US citizens?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 25, 2014 17:43:46 GMT -6
Not unlike 40 million tax paying US citizens receiving refunds because their earnings are low enough to qualify for EIC. We also have a $1,000 credit per child for families earning up to 150K per year. If you are in the 15 and 25% federal bracket 3 children under 17 years of age allows you $3,000 credit or that would shelter about 20K of taxable income for a family with 1/3rd of the income in the 25% bracket or over 70K taxable which would be about 100k in earned income. Having them pay taxes will help defer some costs and also establish them in a process to become citizens if they choose to. What we don't know if the rules tighten up and they need to buy HC insurance instead of using Medicaid etc. and their income remains low which in many cases it may they may choose to return to their native nation instead of working to become a citizen. The current form of amnesty that we are looking at is setting the time clock more than granting citizenship and there will be decisions to be made by our nation as well as the undocumented individuals and that at least sets things in motion instead of doing nothing. As to cost, sure there will be costs there are huge costs already. We can look to West Germany who spent hundreds of billions to bring East Germany up to speed and they are still the best economy in the EU and are rated number 1 in the World as we speak. Sometimes if we can get past our prejudices the investments have good returns.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 25, 2014 18:44:17 GMT -6
Bryce who is guaranteeing a return on investment into granting 5 million people amnesty?
Then how many years before we see the positive side of it as far as tax payer money goes?
Even with this we still just control the boarders and I would be more for some of this IF we really crack down on new illegals coming into,our country, much tighter penalties and a far better control system or we are gambling on our future in many ways by granting such amnesty, because where would it end?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 25, 2014 22:15:18 GMT -6
No one is guaranteeing anything on 5 million receiving amnesty but our past sure should indicate that those thousands of businesses hiring illegal workers made profits and increased their wealth. It is amazing that a firm that can and does hire low cost labor so they can make more profit complains about their tax payments. Sort of like the large firm with the guaranteed government contract wondering why the standard 30% over bid price costs are being looked at more closely. It is not too dissimilar to one of my HS class mates that was 4F due to some vision issues that worked for the Presto CO during the war. The Presto Co was one of the nations largest producers of M 16 ammo and he worked 50-60 hours per week making $3.00 hour in 1967-68 and bought a house for 12K at 3% interest. We met at my 10 year reunion and he was still peeing and moaning about the taxes he paid and his mortgage payments. By the time I got home with the flood of over 1.5 million leaving the military jobs were hard to find, wages were down and housing costs were soaring as GIs were looking for housing and interest rates rising. I did not bother to talk to him about my hours per week in Nam or my starting wage in 1970 of $94 per month. There was no guarantee with the millions who arrived in the USA over the last 200 years but we are certainly a better nation for working to help immigrants adapt and adjust. It would have been better to not have the current undocumented status hanging over the head of millions but blame for that goes both ways and for those that seem to have benefited the most by their arrival to claim some sort of patriotic reason for deporting them all is mockery at the least.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by PamIsMe on Nov 26, 2014 2:33:10 GMT -6
Pam either way amnesty is given what is the message?
Amnesty and a legal path to citizenship are two entirely different things.
Even if it was plausible, what would the on-going costs be to deport 13 million people and keep enforcing it?
Cheers, Pam
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 26, 2014 5:22:53 GMT -6
So I I see we just allow everyone to come here and we sit by and do nothing.....................
We need better control so deportation is less and less, at points are borders are a joke in fact it can be harder for Americans to get back in than illegals coming here.
patriotic reason? How about because we have laws about entering the country? That millions clearly break because we they know we have no teeth to our laws. So why have them? have an open boarder then?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Nov 26, 2014 7:31:07 GMT -6
Your assuming that the bulk of those here without citizenship are not working and I am guessing you to be very wrong about that assumption. I hear a lot of talk about how many jobs they take away from US citizens and how little they are willing to work for and yet the complaint you have is they will sit on their butt and do little or nothing. There is not evidence to prove your assumption to be correct.
Bryce
|
|