|
Post by trappnman on Jun 23, 2014 7:08:56 GMT -6
I think that the Asian carp is nonsense as well- and no more worthy than the congress getting involved- and I don't hear people complaining about the German Brown
but lets not confuse the two issues and make them 1 issue
because there is quite a bit of difference
TC- how you feel about it, makes as much sense as to how I would feel if someone called me a black person- I'd laugh. your feelings matter ZERO
I gave you my dare TC- you wisely didn't comment- because you know, you KNOW what would happen if you did you'd be in a hospital or dead
non of your rhetoric trumps that
and to comment- if we can't cure all the ills of minoritys- why then, why even bother by discontinuing to use racial slurs?
why are there no teams called "the Whiteys" or "The Honkies"?
seems to be a tactic- lump something meaningful with stuff that's not- and categorize them as the same
|
|
|
Post by blackhammer on Jun 23, 2014 8:38:26 GMT -6
I personally would say Redskins is a bad name and I could see why it should quit being used. I don't feel the same about some of the other nicknames using Indian or Indian type names. I don't think it is a black and white issue and each name has vary degree of what some would consider offensive. But there is a time when just about anything is considered offensive by at least small groups with in a group. The word police mainly the press has reached the point of almost a gestafo type behavior toward people who make the mistake of using an offensive word. To me it is over kill and serves little purpose. I'm amazed Redskins has lasted this long and could care less if it goes or stays. I personally think to many people words like fat are extremely offensive probably just as much as Redskins are to others. People just have to have thick skins and try to treat others better. I doubt if dumping the Redskin name with make anyone treat Native Americans better. All the issue becomes is a sideshow for talk radio, TV and print and of course the politicians. Guees my comment is more about society in general and my distain for where it is going.
|
|
|
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jun 23, 2014 9:22:59 GMT -6
The problem I see it is yes redskins is offensive I suppose.
But sioux, Indians, Braves, Blackhawks, et al?
Or Asian Carp?
See how the trivial takes away from the offensive?
Again how will it solve those problems that plague the indian and some Asian communtities?
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Jun 23, 2014 9:46:40 GMT -6
agree steven.
the only problem is Paul, WE are society.
and we CAN change things
there just has to be the will, before the way
no one really cares anymore- or the will would be there.
a good case point is Congress- as a whole, it has a very low favorable rating, yet the favorable rating for most members in their own districts, is quite high
|
|
|
Post by FWS on Jun 23, 2014 13:27:57 GMT -6
And changing the name of that team will not traumatize you fellas or any but the most rabid, bug eyed, frothing at the mouth football fans and assorted right wing conspiracy theorists.
I'd imagine if you sat with a group of Asian people who find the term 'Asian carp' offensive your views might change on that as well.
Know what ? It really isn't that big of a deal to use the other terms, the wild claims that doing so will unleash a cavalcade of horrors is pretty much fantasy. Reality is that society has changed demographically and there is a lot of terminology that other groups would find offensive.
And we as hunters/trappers aren't exactly quiet when we're disparaged by another group.
Anybody remember Seabert ? And our protests against it in the 80's..................
|
|
|
Post by blackhammer on Jun 23, 2014 13:40:54 GMT -6
And changing the name of that team will not traumatize you fellas or any but the most rabid, bug eyed, frothing at the mouth football fans and assorted right wing conspiracy theorists. I'd imagine if you sat with a group of Asian people who find the term 'Asian carp' offensive your views might change on that as well. Know what ? It really isn't that big of a deal to use the other terms, the wild claims that doing so will unleash a cavalcade of horrors is pretty much fantasy. Reality is that society has changed demographically and there is a lot of terminology that other groups would find offensive. And we as hunters/trappers aren't exactly quiet when we're disparaged by another group. Anybody remember Seabert ? And our protests against it in the 80's.................. Or I sat with a group of Asians who could care less? That's the trouble with your postions. You are so radical in your beliefs you do trivialize your good ideas with not being able to call out or the see the silliness of Asian carp or some other nonsense. You are never wrong, never compromising. The attitude on both sides than is making our government a sham. Hunters and trappers? It is open season on us all the time. It is basically a situation were we stay as low key as possible so we don't offend those who are offended by us. Imagine if I sat with a group who found trapping offensive? I don't see skin color I see people who get it and those that don't.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 23, 2014 15:21:33 GMT -6
Tman it all depends on what native Americans I am around as to the outcome. Not ALL Indians on any reservation are the same people or have the same mind set. I know some native Americans I could call them a redskin and they would laugh FACT. There might be some that do not know me that would get upset or angry and depending on where I am would have an impact on the outcome, am I on the Sovereign Nation grounds or on grounds where they could go to jail? BIG difference and many know that!
Ink ow my Indian friends I could call them a redskin without worry and I know for a fact they do not care about the DC football issue as I have talked to them since we have been debating on this thread. None of them care about that what so ever. So not cut and dry now is it.
I also know and work with people of color ie: Black people and some of them joke in ways I never thought possible again all comes back to mind set, some joke around and will make comments like your sold old when you where born you could have bought and sold me. They laugh about that and have a great nature as they know the people we have around aren't racist towards them and their nature is such they can handle many things that a more serious type of people with color would be offended by, these are average joes and they aren't looked at as people with color but just another guy, the reminder comes with jokes and good ribbing. it took me a while to feel comfortable about that, but they have been comfortable in their skin for a long while Or would not make such jokes, plus others that would shock many people. All in good nature and not so serious.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 23, 2014 15:23:39 GMT -6
Black hammer FWS takes all issues seriously.
|
|
|
Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 23, 2014 15:25:44 GMT -6
I think that Amanda Blackhorse who filed the suit should have to change her name. Their are several things about it that I find offensive.
The black part of it should be immediately apparent to anyone with any shred of politically correct decency, but there are furthermore, serious, subtle and insidious undertones that one could imagine being associated with such a politically charged name.
Consider the complexities of animal rights by using the name of an animal. Not to mention that it may have etymology of the name could be traced to the domination of of horses by mankind. Worse yet it is entirely conceivable that could have been spawned by the slave trade, in reference to a slave being termed a real horse. That term is used way too loosely in the NFL,NBA, and elsewhere to this enlightened day and age.
It quite likely could have sexual implications as well. I mean we all know what they say about the size of a horses penis. I don't dare go beyond that in my concern about this name.
I believe I have sufficiently made the case to give Ms. Blackhorse the option of changing her name voluntarily. If she doesn't comply then she should subject to extra special scrutiny by the IRS.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 23, 2014 16:16:26 GMT -6
Joel why so serious . yes I know some Indians with the last name "runs with knives" this could imply that these people are crazy running with knives and what Implications this could have on their children who might take their last name too seriously and trying to run with knives which could bring child endangerment charges against any relative with the same last names, plus not to mention what anxiety this could shed on people who are not Native American and could be in fear around anyone with the last name runs with knives. Implying they actually run around with multiple knives,
|
|
|
Post by FWS on Jun 23, 2014 19:45:47 GMT -6
No, she should be applauded for assimilating into the litigious culture of Caucasian Americans. Imagine here using the Constitutional rights guaranteed to all Americans by the Founders of this great nation to redress her grievances against an uncaring business oligarch. It should bring a tear to you eye and cause spontaneous flag waving. Who is Amanda Blackhorse in Redskins’ trademark case?By Cindy Boren Washington Post June 18, 2014 If the United States Patent and Trademark Office’s decision to cancel the trademark of the Washington Redskins stands, Amanda Blackhorse will deserve a large part of the credit. Blackhorse, a Navajo and psychiatric social worker, is the named plaintiff in the case known as Blackhorse et al v. Pro-Football Inc., the lawsuit filed by five Native Americans. In a USA Today profile this spring, Blackhorse said she considered what she might say to Redskins owner Daniel Snyder if she ever meets him. “I’d ask him, ‘Would you dare call me a redskin, right here, to my face?’ ” she says. “And I suspect that, no, he would not do that.” The Blackhorse plaintiffs made essentially the same argument as those who filed the Harjo et al v. Pro-Football Inc. trademark suit in 1992. It was tied up in litigation for 17 years after Suzan Shown Harjo and six petitioners won a decision from the trademark board in 1999, then saw it overturned on appeal on the basis that they had waited too long to assert their rights. From USA Today’s Erik Brady: And so Harjo, who is Cheyenne and Muscogee, sought younger plaintiffs to carry the fight forward. She found six, some as young as 18 when the second suit was filed, in 2006 (one of them later dropped out). Blackhorse, then 24, was the oldest. “The other side says I recruited her,” Harjo says. “Of course I recruited her. I recruited them all. They really must think we’re stupid or inept. Everyone recruits. NFL franchises recruit. The Army recruits. Schools recruit. Businesses recruit. It just doesn’t make any sense that we wouldn’t do that.” This is the story of two women — one younger, one older — who are fighting the same fight. Blackhorse, 31, works at Arizona State Hospital and next month plans to move back to the Navajo reservation where she grew up to be a social worker. Harjo, 68 next month, is an Indian rights advocate and president of the Washington-based Morning Star Institute, though such shorthand leaves out many of her other titles, including poet, writer, lecturer and grandmother.
|
|
|
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jun 23, 2014 19:54:42 GMT -6
FWS, i dont know how you come to the conclusion that I give a flip about what a nfl team call themselves. I played football in high school and am not afraid to say I was ok at it. But that is where my loyalties to football stops. My home team.
NFL? They could call themselves the flying fairies for all I care and put homos in every locker. I just dont care.
I'd still like to know how its going to solve their problems.
I say lets change all the names that they find offensive.
Than when their problems are the same maybe they will tackle the real issues.
Hammer is a Norwegian right? Maybe the Vikings should change their name. Maybe that is why paul ended up a coon trapper hehehe.
|
|
|
Post by blackhammer on Jun 23, 2014 20:23:16 GMT -6
Right now I'm picketing at Luther college in Decorah, Iowa. They call their teams Norseman. I find that very offensive. lol
|
|
|
Post by exmatador on Jun 23, 2014 20:45:44 GMT -6
They are going to have to change the name of Redman chewing tobacco also...
I might just start a petition!
|
|
|
Post by FWS on Jun 24, 2014 3:26:42 GMT -6
No, it's a tool, Online Etymology Dictionaryhammer (n.) Old English hamor "hammer," from Proto-Germanic *hamaraz (cognates: Old Saxon hamur, Middle Dutch, Dutch hamer, Old High German hamar, German Hammer. The Old Norse cognate hamarr meant "stone, crag" (it's common in English place names), and suggests an original sense of "tool with a stone head," from PIE *akmen "stone, sharp stone used as a tool" (cognates: Old Church Slavonic kamy, Russian kameni "stone"), from root *ak- "sharp" (see acme). Hammer and sickle as an emblem of Soviet communism attested from 1921, symbolizing industrial and agricultural labor. hammer (v.) late 14c., from hammer (n.). Meaning "to work (something) out laboriously" recorded from 1580s. Meaning "to defeat heavily" is from 1948. Related: Hammered; hammering. Hammered as a slang synonym for "drunk" attested by 1986. Norsemen were the group of people who spoke the old Norse language about 1000 years ago. Viking meant going on an expedition or a voyage in old Norse. Those aren't slang identifiers like 'redskin' which is based on a physical characteristic, which is by nature derogatory. "tool with a stone head,"................ Could be............................
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Jun 24, 2014 7:25:38 GMT -6
Those aren't slang identifiers like 'redskin' which is based on a physical characteristic, which is by nature derogatory.
a serious, concise, accurate assessment of the issue
TC- start calling your co workers niggers- that will bring out a good laugh or two..............
|
|
|
Post by blackhammer on Jun 24, 2014 7:31:38 GMT -6
No, it's a tool, Online Etymology Dictionaryhammer (n.) Old English hamor "hammer," from Proto-Germanic *hamaraz (cognates: Old Saxon hamur, Middle Dutch, Dutch hamer, Old High German hamar, German Hammer. The Old Norse cognate hamarr meant "stone, crag" (it's common in English place names), and suggests an original sense of "tool with a stone head," from PIE *akmen "stone, sharp stone used as a tool" (cognates: Old Church Slavonic kamy, Russian kameni "stone"), from root *ak- "sharp" (see acme). Hammer and sickle as an emblem of Soviet communism attested from 1921, symbolizing industrial and agricultural labor. hammer (v.) late 14c., from hammer (n.). Meaning "to work (something) out laboriously" recorded from 1580s. Meaning "to defeat heavily" is from 1948. Related: Hammered; hammering. Hammered as a slang synonym for "drunk" attested by 1986. Norsemen were the group of people who spoke the old Norse language about 1000 years ago. Viking meant going on an expedition or a voyage in old Norse. Those aren't slang identifiers like 'redskin' which is based on a physical characteristic, which is by nature derogatory. "tool with a stone head,"................ Could be............................ Now your getting personal. lol Seminoles, Black Hawks and other such names should be perfectly all right then ? And why to I get a feeling you will say no?
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Jun 24, 2014 7:34:33 GMT -6
they all seem to be left out of the current firestorm- is there a reason, or simply overlooked?
if there is a reason, and I think there is- perhaps its in the difference between one being a racial slur through the past 200 years, and the others not?
|
|
|
Post by FWS on Jun 24, 2014 8:07:52 GMT -6
They could be as long as those individual tribes are supportive. Though many tribal names we recognize came from Europeans and were derogatory, again, it's up to those individual tribes. Seminole is an example, since the word Seminole is a corruption of cimarrón, a Spanish term for "runaway" or "wild one", and used to describe some Native American groups in Florida. Black Hawk was a war leader of the Sauk tribe and there are a lot of things named after him to honor him. That was already answered,
|
|
|
Post by Jarhead620 on Jun 24, 2014 13:29:14 GMT -6
OMG, you folks are still beating on this poor dead horse. The nag had so little substance to begin with.
Roll eyes.
Jarhead
|
|