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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jun 20, 2014 8:18:20 GMT -6
OK than.
I think its a racial slur.
Now answer my question.
Will the name change make any difference on the problems that plague the indian community?
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Post by exmatador on Jun 20, 2014 8:43:26 GMT -6
Problem is they have been living off the government too long... In-laws live on a res.. Could go on with stories.. No different than any other race including WHITES as generations go by setting examples of how not to earn a living..
Natives I have spoken with laugh it off also..
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Post by FWS on Jun 20, 2014 14:03:35 GMT -6
Once you have recognized that there really are no further questions beyond what Washington's new name will be.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 20, 2014 16:04:04 GMT -6
FWS again you love to play words, meaning the name change is really NO different to protecting trapping and other things, they nibble away at freedoms and choices .
Answer Steven then what will the name change do to make a positive effect on Indian reservations across the US?
Plenty of more major issues effecting the Indian communities than the logo and name of a football team, far more issues to worry about first and then move this down the list for one day when major issues effecting native Americans get dealt with first and foremost. I too have plenty of true and factual stories about native Americans and we are not doing them and good by what our govt continues to do in the year 2014, in fact far worse than the DC redskins could ever imagine doing.
But if you feel changing the name of an NFL team will make an ounce of difference to the Sioux Indians of SD or the Indians of Minn so be it I guess.
If you want my honest opinion when some of the native Americans start stating pride that burns my butt and yes that isn't socially acceptable either now is it? But facts are facts.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 21, 2014 7:52:39 GMT -6
you think its going to have a negative effect?
TC- you tell me truthfully and honestly-
would you go to a Reservation and call out to a group of young men that you would like to talk to some of the redskins there?
if you answer yes- your nose is growing...............
interesting- I see many racial stereotypes being presented, by those thinking its not a slur, and that after all Indians laugh at the issue.....
the point isn't that a term doesn't offend 100% of the class its describing, the point is if it offends a large portion of that class- why use it?
my honest opinion when some of the native Americans start stating pride that burns my butt
why would that burn your butt? are the Indians you know, not proud of their heritage?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 21, 2014 19:58:15 GMT -6
Tman, hard to be proud when you sit back and rely on the govt to take care of you no matter race or color. Now saying that and being honest as I can be, not All native Americans are that way I know some who aren't like that but a big enough portion are to consider themselves prideful is well not accurate to what pride means.
To state they are proud of their heritage and then do some of the things some do is not one of pride at all. Again just being honest. If you have pride in your tradition then you live life in those traditions and the Native Americans of the past where workers and people that did things the right way, today many do not and rely too much on the govt and lack the work ethic and fortitude there forefathers had. Again might sound harsh and cruel but true. I have a few good Indian friends and they are all hard working own their own cattle work there ranches and even they get mad at those that come and use the ground they work hard for and try to keep things in balance and deer hunt out of the back of a pickup bed drinking all day long, now if you want to here some bad comments just ask these guys and they are native Americans themselves.
Now stating that it wouldn't matter to me if you are white and say you have pride while getting your life covered from the govt, and having no work ethic burns my butt just the same. yet on Indian Reservarions you have the highest unemployment in the nation there, now is it all the native Americans fault? No way our govt has a big part in all of this , again I know too much about living on reservations and knowing what I know plenty of blame to go around. I have plenty of true and real examples of mismanagement from all facets when it concerns this issue. from schooling to what takes place in a blizzard there. yes I am talking where I lived and the people I had contact with and interacted with working for the state and also bar tending at a bar where many native Americans frequented.
Not being racist even though easy to state such but it is being honest is all. I have no ill will towards any reservation or the people there, in fact I have helped some of them out myself and have saw some get used and abused by people as well. Which I think is wrong very wrong. But again because what I I say doesn't paint the best picture but a real picture easy to throw out the racist card I get that.
Tman how do we really know what portion it offends? Do we have any numbers? the man who did the logo was a native American man in high standing, he did not find it offensive, the people who helped work on the logo never found it offensive, his son who is still alive doesn't find it offensive, you haves heard from others on here that have Indian relations That have said the same, so what is large? Some of the largest indian reservations I have yet to hear from on this issue.
here is some native thoughts on the issue:
A day after losing their trademark registration by the federal government, the Washington Redskin’s mascot controversy is hitting close to home.
Richard Whitman, a member of the Yuchi tribe, remembers being teased as a child – repeatedly being called a “redskin.”
“You live with it, you know?” Whitman said of the teasing. “It was part of our little survival technique, if you will.”
So he is glad to see pressure put on the Washington Redskins to change their name.
He says it represents the scalps that were collected by bounty hunters who made a living killing Native Americans.
“Medical health shows the impact of this kind of imaging for young native people,” Whitman said.
But if the Redskins name is changed, should Oklahoma change its name too?
The state’s name is from the Choctaw words “okla” and “humma,” meaning “red people.”
The Choctaw Nation website says following the trail of tears, it was a Choctaw Chief who suggested the Oklahoma name during treaty negotiations – and he was referring to the people’s skin color.
Whitman says the color carries a different meaning.
“It’s a symbolic color of life, the color red, in my tribe.”
But for several Oklahoma high schools, Capitol Hill, Tulsa Union, Rush Springs, Kingston and McLoud, their Redskins mascot name is a source of pride.
“I’m very proud to be a Redskin,” Joseph Wood, a member of the Kickapoo tribe, said Thursday.
Wood recently graduated from McLoud High School, proudly played quarterback for the McLoud Redskins, and says he wouldn’t want the state’s name changed either.
“It’s very ridiculous because then you’d have to change other states,” he said. “Indiana, land of the Indians.”
He says his tribal leaders, and many others, very much appreciate being represented by the NFL.
“If you ask them, it is an honor to have a mascot portraying them,” he said, “to represent them.”
Some research documents Native American chiefs using the terms “red skins” and “white skins” in the 1700′s.
The Washington Redskins remain adamant about keeping the name.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 21, 2014 20:12:00 GMT -6
So if redskins goes then Oklahoma must go to then correct? As if a portion finds that term offensive we must then act as well at the federal and state levels as well.
Otherwise we could change it from redskins and keep,the logo as that was done by native americans and according to Whitman red people is ok to be used.
So the new name for the Washington DC NFL football team will now be known as the Washington DC red people. Agreed?
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RShaw
Demoman...
Posts: 147
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Post by RShaw on Jun 21, 2014 21:47:19 GMT -6
In light of the most recent scandals ranging from lost emails to the release of terrorists, it does not surprise me that the government would concentrate it's efforts on the renaming of a football team.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 22, 2014 7:49:24 GMT -6
hey fellows- call whomever whatever you want-
I find it absurd that TC equate black person as being the same as black because that's exactly what his post is saying
Rshaw- couldn't agree more on your idea of wasted time- but make no mistake about it- "lost email" and Releasing terrorists" are no more worthy of our govt time than the name change
the releasing terrorists thing- look at history- look at reagons actions with Iran
the trademark office on the other hand- made the correct ruling- again, no different than black person
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 22, 2014 13:42:26 GMT -6
Here you go:
The term black people is an everyday English-language phrase, often used in socially-based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity to describe persons who are defined as belonging to a "black" ethnicity in their particular country, typically having a degree of Sub-Saharan African ancestry, or who are perceived to be dark-skinned relative to other "racial groups".
Different societies, such as Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom, the United States and South Africa apply differing criteria regarding who is classified as "black", and these criteria have also varied over time. In some countries, social variables affect classification as much as skin-color, and the social criteria for "blackness" vary. For example, in North America the term black people is not necessarily an indicator of skin color or ethnic origin but is more of a socially-based racial classification related to being African American, with a family history related to institutionalized slavery. In South Africa, mixed-race people are not considered to be "black", and in other regions, such as Australia and Melanesia, the term "black" has been applied to, and used by, populations with a very different history.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 22, 2014 13:52:20 GMT -6
We also use the term "black market" which refers to underground like the slaves did years ago. I don't make these terms up nor do I suggest they are racist . That is for you and I to decide in our minds but the use still continues on, until a small faction decides they want to make a change and then pressure people to try and do so, so they can make a splash.
I could care less about color but terms and phrases are used today and the majority have no issues with it or would have been changed years prior, it is a small percentage that wants the credit, that carries on with trivial things.
Trivial to the large portion is what the Washington DC redskins name is in my mind and millions of others..............
Not so trivial to our congressional people that want to make a splash for Re election coming up and want to make an issue out of it now today................
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Post by FWS on Jun 22, 2014 14:06:42 GMT -6
And a general disrespect for Native Americans.................
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Post by blackhammer on Jun 22, 2014 14:08:23 GMT -6
I'm still baffled over Asian carp being offensive? It truly is a world were people are more concerned with perceived bad words than bad actions that do cause great harm.
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Post by FWS on Jun 22, 2014 14:28:03 GMT -6
No reason to be baffled, if Asian people are offended then refer to the carp as invasive carp or by species name. Interesting thing is that peoples of Asian ancestry are most likely the ones who offer the best solution for controlling invasive carp since they'd be the primary market to sell them to for human consumption. So if the market gets established and they want to pay $$'s per lb for you to catch them you should be happy to call them whatever they want you to call them. Lawmaker wants Asian carp renamed; term called ‘offensive’By Tim Lammers March 27, 2014 Citing a negative connotation with the name of the invasive species, a Minnesota senator wants the term Asian carp to be changed to something else. The Associated Press says Sen. John Hoffman, DFL-Champlin, is sponsoring a bill in the Senate to have the name changed because some people of Asian descent have complained about the name. “Caucasians brought them to America. Should we call them ‘Caucasian carp?’ They have names,” Hoffman said Thursday. “Let’s call them what they are.” According to the Associated Press, the proposal in the Legislature would require the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to call the species “invasive carp.” A fish biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia, says the species were named for two closely related fish – the bighead carp and the silver carp – which are native to a region of Asia spanning China, part of Siberia and North Korea. The Environmental Protection Agency says Asian carp – found in the Illinois River, which connects the Mississippi River to Lake Michigan – could pose a significant risk to the Great Lakes ecosystem because of their large size and rapid rate of reproduction. Jean Lee, an adoption advocate who facilitates international adoptions for China and Vietnam, testified Thursday that she became upset by the term after hearing it at a roundtable meeting with DNR officials. “They were referring to the Asian people in terms of being invasive species. This was offensive,” Lee said. The Council on Asian-Pacific Minnesotans Executive Director Sia Her also testified that the negative response to the fish “will reflect negatively on our community,” the AP says. The complaints come less than two weeks after a discovery about 20 miles south of the Minnesota border. The Star Tribune says Asian carp eggs were found in the Upper Mississippi River near Lynxville, Wisconsin. A DNR spokesman says the agency wasn’t aware of the complaints that the Asian carp name was offensive, but will follow the Legislature’s lead on a decision. The Senate bill was approved and awaits a House vote, but the House version still has to go to committee. The AP says a similar bill introduced in the Iowa Legislature in 2013 didn’t make it out of committee.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 22, 2014 19:41:10 GMT -6
FWS a disrespect Becuase many don't believe in the context used redskins means little in the overall scheme of things? Or Becuase some talk about factual obsticals that the native Americans have faced for years? or Becuase some post facts about not all Indians having nan issue with the name use age and even some native Americans find it respectful,that they call them selves the Washington redskins?
OK...............
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Post by FWS on Jun 22, 2014 20:28:38 GMT -6
The context doesn't really matter. It's the term itself. And now the hysterical protection of it. Neither does Washington's NFL franchise, and changing the team name should be no problem. And this issue is pretty much the only time you've posted such concerns.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jun 22, 2014 20:32:05 GMT -6
I suppose the boston bb team will have to change their name next.
The irish were treated rather poorly so the celtics should change their name.
Can someone explain to me how changing names like sioux seminoles and redskins are going to fix the problems?
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Post by blackhammer on Jun 22, 2014 20:34:32 GMT -6
No reason to be baffled, if Asian people are offended then refer to the carp as invasive carp or by species name. Interesting thing is that peoples of Asian ancestry are most likely the ones who offer the best solution for controlling invasive carp since they'd be the primary market to sell them to for human consumption. So if the market gets established and they want to pay $$'s per lb for you to catch them you should be happy to call them whatever they want you to call them. Lawmaker wants Asian carp renamed; term called ‘offensive’By Tim Lammers March 27, 2014 Citing a negative connotation with the name of the invasive species, a Minnesota senator wants the term Asian carp to be changed to something else. The Associated Press says Sen. John Hoffman, DFL-Champlin, is sponsoring a bill in the Senate to have the name changed because some people of Asian descent have complained about the name. “Caucasians brought them to America. Should we call them ‘Caucasian carp?’ They have names,” Hoffman said Thursday. “Let’s call them what they are.” According to the Associated Press, the proposal in the Legislature would require the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to call the species “invasive carp.” A fish biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia, says the species were named for two closely related fish – the bighead carp and the silver carp – which are native to a region of Asia spanning China, part of Siberia and North Korea. The Environmental Protection Agency says Asian carp – found in the Illinois River, which connects the Mississippi River to Lake Michigan – could pose a significant risk to the Great Lakes ecosystem because of their large size and rapid rate of reproduction. Jean Lee, an adoption advocate who facilitates international adoptions for China and Vietnam, testified Thursday that she became upset by the term after hearing it at a roundtable meeting with DNR officials. “They were referring to the Asian people in terms of being invasive species. This was offensive,” Lee said. The Council on Asian-Pacific Minnesotans Executive Director Sia Her also testified that the negative response to the fish “will reflect negatively on our community,” the AP says. The complaints come less than two weeks after a discovery about 20 miles south of the Minnesota border. The Star Tribune says Asian carp eggs were found in the Upper Mississippi River near Lynxville, Wisconsin. A DNR spokesman says the agency wasn’t aware of the complaints that the Asian carp name was offensive, but will follow the Legislature’s lead on a decision. The Senate bill was approved and awaits a House vote, but the House version still has to go to committee. The AP says a similar bill introduced in the Iowa Legislature in 2013 didn’t make it out of committee. What a bunch of nonsense. Seems to me there is a group that basically lives to stir the pot about meaningless left wing, thin skinned ,woe is me , the man is sticking it to me and making me feel bad about myself foolishness. You want to help Indians close down the darn reservations and help them assimilate into society. How many Asians do you suppose complained about Asian carp? How many working class Asians whose jobs are not as activists. Heck of a job title activist.FWS, I think your sterotyping Asians as people that will eat anything may be a bit offensive to some Asians. Carp, cats whatever the Asians will eat them.
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Post by FWS on Jun 22, 2014 20:57:32 GMT -6
And it's your right to believe that, but that doesn't resolve it as an issue.
Whether you agree with them or not they do have a Constitutional right to petition their government to address their concerns.
Where did I say they were "people that will eat anything" ?
But I'm happy to point out that Asian peoples do indeed love fish, shellfish, and other aquatic organisms. And I'm delighted to provide those species for them.
As a discrete insular minority yourself when do you plan on assimilating into society ?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 23, 2014 3:52:53 GMT -6
Hysterical protection of it? Good grief..............
Changing the team name is a problem for the owner, some fans and even some native Americans ...................
The issue of concern on my part means nothing in this matter really..........
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