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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 15, 2012 17:08:12 GMT -6
"But back on to Pam's post, she almost makes it sound like it was somehow the fault of the NRA."
No, I didn't mean to imply that about NRA. I do think that they could be proactive and not oppose even simple things like waiting periods and background checks. And, stop the scare tactics about the Dem's taking away everyone's guns. It's just preposterous. It's just a blantant fund raising tool for them that needs to be replaced with something else.
One of the worst parts of this whole thing for me as a Mom was that by 10 last night, they still had the bodies of the children at the scene and said they needed to complete their thorough investigation before releasing them to the cooner's office for autopsies. Good God, they knew who the killer was and he was dead. Why would the parents have to deal with the thought of autopies on their babies on top of all they will be going through. What possible reason could there be for that?
Pam
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Post by seldom on Dec 15, 2012 18:41:52 GMT -6
Unfortunately, I believe this type of senselessness is just getting started. We've got a large portion of this generation of 20-somethings and late teens who are disconnected with society, seek out gratification in violent video games and movies, and who have little regard for other human life and feelings, much less their own. Absolutely correct and couple those all-encompassing influences with a mentaly unstable individual, no one should be suprised at the fruit our society will bear!
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Post by trappnman on Dec 16, 2012 9:16:19 GMT -6
on video games-
as kids, we played cowboys and indians quite often- we all had cap guns and killed each other constantly-
and our generation never did those things
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Post by seldom on Dec 16, 2012 10:35:42 GMT -6
on video games- as kids, we played cowboys and indians quite often- we all had cap guns and killed each other constantly- and our generation never did those things Yup, you better believe it! . So what did society do with that, that they don't seem inclined to do today"? I don't think I've seen rolls of caps or cap guns when shopping for grandkids Christmas gifts in many years!
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Post by stickbowhntr on Dec 16, 2012 11:08:29 GMT -6
waiting periods and background checks... not sure on all states waiting periods but I do KNOW federal laws require background checks known here in Pa AS PICS....all the laws we make are ONLY as good as the officials that enforce them [Just look at immigration laws ON THE BOOKS]or chose not to! Laws today are NOT about LAW but Prescident and LOTS of that NOT EVEN Common sense!
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 16, 2012 11:41:18 GMT -6
So what would your idea's be for any sort of solution stickbow?
Cheers, Pam
PS In PA, if you go to a gun show do they run a background check and make you wait 3 days to pick up your gun?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 16, 2012 12:31:55 GMT -6
What makes you think that the goverment should provide a solution?
Like I said there were millions of us that didn't shoot up a school yesterday.
Leave me out of your "solutions".
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Post by James on Dec 16, 2012 13:51:38 GMT -6
Do you have any kids or grandkids?
Jim
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Post by mmwb (Andrew Parker) on Dec 16, 2012 16:38:04 GMT -6
Whether founded in anti-social or sociopathic tendencies or in more pathology based thought disorders; individuals with a tendency to do these sorts of things will not be hindered by laws. If firearms aren't available, they will find other means of acting out violence.
Increased mental health services will help some, but isn't enough. There is a societal problem that goes beyond mental health as I believe--working in the field--that we may be seeing an increase in both frequency and severity of mental health problems. We have a society that reinforces self-absorption, a lack of distress tolerance, decreased willingness to delay gratification, and decreased abilities to self regulate thoughts and emotions. As such, people tend to move to, and over, the edge more easily.
I wish several of the teachers in my kids' schools were armed. I wish policy didn't prohibit firearms at my work place. Unfortunately, too many really believe that restricted access to the tools of destruction will deter those that would misuse them to their own selfish end. The only way to prevent a sociopath from harming others is for the the sociopath to change his or her inner frame work of thinking. There are evidenced based practices in the mental health field that the properly trained professional can use with fairly good results. The solutions however, will also need to include broader changes that decrease the development of these problems from an earlier age.
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Post by mustelameister on Dec 16, 2012 19:26:22 GMT -6
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Post by seldom on Dec 16, 2012 19:50:26 GMT -6
. If firearms aren't available, they will find other means of acting out violence.
Increased mental health services will help some, but isn't enough. There is a societal problem that goes beyond mental health as I believe--working in the field--that we may be seeing an increase in both frequency and severity of mental health problems. We have a society that reinforces self-absorption, a lack of distress tolerance, decreased willingness to delay gratification, and decreased abilities to self regulate thoughts and emotions. As such, people tend to move to, and over, the edge more easily. . I absolutely believe this to be true!
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 16, 2012 20:08:50 GMT -6
Yes I do James, biggest reason I don't want the government compromising their freedoms.
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 17, 2012 2:58:33 GMT -6
Mmustelameister, on 60-60 tonight they interviewed a school employee who was able to hide. She said that in their school they say the pledge of Alligence at 9:00 and lock all the outside doors right after. The only way to get into the building is being buzzed in via an intercom system. The shooter apparently shot out a window to get into the building.
Interesting in the video that one of the guns he recommends is one of the ones the shooter had.
Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 17, 2012 6:12:50 GMT -6
Pam if you go to a gun show to buy a gun you will have to have a background check if your a dealer, that is federal law. The only way not to have background checks is private sales. If you have an FFL you must do a background check on anyone making a purchase from you.
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Post by buckfreak on Dec 17, 2012 6:32:03 GMT -6
Steve, with cap guns you didn't get the blood and gore that todays kids get on the video games and in movies. They have been desensitised to violence. I'd say 90% of the games available are about killing. Kids would be better off if they were given cap guns and tossed outside to play.
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 17, 2012 14:42:21 GMT -6
Do you know whose administration changed those laws?
"Reagan rescinded the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980, enacted under President Carter, as a way to reduce federal spending, reduce social programs, and transfer responsibility of many, if not most, government functions to the individual states (Thomas, 1998). The number of homeless people went from something so small that it wasn't even written about in the late 1970s to more than 2 million when Reagan left office (Gray Panthers, n.d.). The large increase of mentally ill in prisons was exacerbated by the closure of many mental institutions under the "care in the community" policy introduced in the 1980s during Reagan's presidency (Campbell, 2003). Reagan appeared to ignore homelessness and felt people were homeless by choice."
Cheers, Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 17, 2012 19:18:13 GMT -6
I say if you have seen a doctor for mental disorders that hit a point on a list that by law that must be called into the NICS system with name, SS, DOB and other information and then when the call is made for a background check these type of people who shouldn't have firearms be denied. As it stands now you must have had to be committed to a mental institution or adjudicated mentally defective, I think this portion of F needs to be changed somewhat and that info gathered. Sorry but if your BI Polar, or dual personalities then you can't own a gun! We have a misdemeanor domestic charge on there but too lack on mental illness if you ask me!
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Post by mmwb (Andrew Parker) on Dec 17, 2012 22:41:14 GMT -6
"I say if you have seen a doctor for mental disorders that hit a point on a list that by law that must be called into the NICS system with name, SS, DOB and other information and then when the call is made for a background check these type of people who shouldn't have firearms be denied."
What you will run into with that are people who won't see a physician to get a medication that may well help alleviate the problem. The vast majority of mental disorders are benign. Most of the laws have sought a balance between protecting the public and protecting individual rights. Remember that the vast, vast majority of people with mental disorders never have any violent tendencies. A paucity of affordable services is more the problem.
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 18, 2012 1:36:01 GMT -6
"Remember that the vast, vast majority of people with mental disorders never have any violent tendencies."
Judging from the number of suicides I'd qualify that statement with "only towards themselves." Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the US and for every one death there are 11 attempts. And a good share of them never get reported so the number is undoubtedly higher.
Pam
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Post by James on Dec 18, 2012 3:23:04 GMT -6
"The only way to prevent a sociopath from harming others is for the the sociopath to change his or her inner frame work of thinking. There are evidenced based practices in the mental health field that the properly trained professional can use with fairly good results."
I thought that there is NO cure for sociopaths, i.e. psychopaths. You can't implant a conscience or insert an empathy chip into their brains. Am I wrong?
Jim
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