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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 14, 2012 16:36:37 GMT -6
Seems like this happens every week lately, this week twice.........Thursday a mall shooting and today:
NEWTOWN, Conn. — A man opened fire inside the Connecticut elementary school where his mother worked Friday, killing 27 people, including 20 children, and forcing students to cower in classrooms and then flee with the help of teachers and police.
The shooting appeared to be the nation's second-deadliest school shooting, exceeded only by the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, which left 32 people and the gunman dead.
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What kind of monster could shoot 20 little innocent kids.................
Pam
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Post by trappnman on Dec 14, 2012 16:52:07 GMT -6
and his mother
senseless, senseless!
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 14, 2012 17:28:01 GMT -6
I sure can't understand shooting kids for gods sake.
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Post by Jarhead620 on Dec 14, 2012 18:28:50 GMT -6
Why can't these evil monsters just go off by themselves and blow their worthless brains out.
So sad for the children and their families. I really don't know what the answer to this is, but we are going to have to do better. You can ban military style semi automatics and high capacity magazines but a criminal can still find a way to get them. We may need to require full disclosure of mentally impaired individuals without concern for privacy niceties. The mother knew this guy had serious problems, yet she let him have access to three guns. All my guns except for one revolver are in my gun safe. I'm considering locking it up to and hope I don't need it in a hurry.
Larry
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Post by James on Dec 14, 2012 19:55:13 GMT -6
"We may need to require full disclosure of mentally impaired individuals without concern for privacy niceties."
You're talking about a lot of trappers there.
Seriously, we do need to bring back laws allowing these people to be hospitalized and medicated against their will, if necessary.
Jim
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Post by Jarhead620 on Dec 14, 2012 20:21:05 GMT -6
You're talking about a lot of trappers there.
LOL, we can make a meaningful start by rounding up the certifiable mental cases over on Trapperman.com. There not hard to identify.
Larry
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Post by mustelameister on Dec 14, 2012 22:05:05 GMT -6
Unfortunately, I believe this type of senselessness is just getting started. We've got a large portion of this generation of 20-somethings and late teens who are disconnected with society, seek out gratification in violent video games and movies, and who have little regard for other human life and feelings, much less their own. Now the sabre rattling begins even more intensely for gun control. About four years before I retired there was a public school shooting in a nearby school district. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_High_School_shootingWe had a faculty meeting shortly afterwards to brainstorm ideas on how to protect our own students from a similar event. All doors are locked around the outside of our building except for the front doors. I raised my hand and respectfully suggested we lock all doors, including the front ones, and install an intercom device. People who want to get into the building during the day could talk with the office personnel who could release the locked door from inside. I also suggested the administration in the front office all take firearms training and have at least two weapons ready to go in a safe place in case someone stormed the front door and got in. Well, it was real quiet for about ten or fifteen seconds, after which the principal asked if there were any other ideas.
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 15, 2012 1:36:13 GMT -6
Sounds like you were ahead of your time Mike, I'll bet in a few more years we'll see that in every school. Public outcry will demand it. Even kids who are not safe at home (and there are plenty of them) should be safe at school.
I have a friend whose 35 year old son has mental and anger problems. Her husband had all his guns in a locked gun cabinet and he recently died. The son hunted around and found the key where it was hidden and bragged that he had it. Luckily he couldn't stand not telling her where he put it, so she immediately called her brother-in-law to come and take all the guns away.
What I don't understand is it sounds like the Mother in this case had those 3 guns registered in her name. Why, when she apparently knew her son had problems, would she keep guns around? For protection? That didn't work out so well.
Sorry, but I think anyone with guns should always have them locked up and the key safely hidden, especially if there are boys in the house. Mental illness in a lot of cases seems to set in around late teen, early age 20 years, and that seems to be the case with a lot of these shootings. Remember a few years back when an 8 year shot some kids at a school, TN maybe?
"Seriously, we do need to bring back laws allowing these people to be hospitalized and medicated against their will, if necessary."
I also agree with that. However, as with my friend's son who bounced around the sytem for years, the system can't handle them so they get sent back to their parents custody, out to fend for themselves, or put in jail, which really isn't a good solution either. I really feel for people whose kid's have problems with no real solutions.
If one considers background checks and a waiting period for anyone who buys a gun any time, any place as gun control, let them be upset. I think that's the type of legislation we will be seeing, and rightfully so.
The NRA has no comment so far, no doubt "Guns don't Kill people Do" won't be much comfort to the 20 sets of parents who lost their kindergarteners today.
Pam
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Post by C1972 on Dec 15, 2012 5:06:51 GMT -6
I haven't heard anyone talk about how he got the guns in the first place. Does anyone agree with me in thinking that the mother had to have known her kid was warped. Denial maybe?? Who knows? I just don't see a parent not being aware of their child's mental deficiencies and/or social inadequacies. Plus, as a lawful gun owner, the pistols could have been kept in a thumbprint lock boxes and the AR should have been in a gun safe. The authorities really need to look at that and ask questions I believe. Anyone agree?
I haven't been able to sleep because of this. It's messing with my head. I keep thinking about my daughter and how I can't always be there to protect her. What if?...What if?...What if? To think of those parents that lost their beautiful children leaves me with a heavy heart to say the least.
WORDS AREN'T ENOUGH.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 15, 2012 5:09:06 GMT -6
Is the insinuation that somehow the NRA is at fault for something?
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Post by C1972 on Dec 15, 2012 5:09:19 GMT -6
You're talking about a lot of trappers there. LOL, we can make a meaningful start by rounding up the certifiable mental cases over on Trapperman.com. There not hard to identify. Larry I couldn't agree with you more Larry. Certifiable.
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Post by Jarhead620 on Dec 15, 2012 6:08:52 GMT -6
Is the insinuation that somehow the NRA is at fault for something? Fault? Well they sure as Hell haven't contributed anything to the solution Joel. They are a single issue outfit without concern for much of anything else. I dropped my membership in the NRA several years ago because on balance I believe that they are a negative force in regard to issues that are important to me. I believe that the Second Amendment does guarantee individual rights to keep and bear arms but I don't have to belong to the NRA to uphold those rights. Larry
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Post by trappnman on Dec 15, 2012 8:01:58 GMT -6
mike, I remember after Columbine, when Jessie was gov- and he said- lot less killed, if every teacher would have been armed- and of course, he got lambasted for it, but a lot, lot of truth in that unfortunately, this is going to spur a loud gun control debate to have tougher laws, more restrictions, etc, but we all know thats not the solution.
But the debate, MUST happen.
Enough is enough of this bullshite
to ramble a bit, I was like most of you growing up- my family hunted a lot, and I grew up around guns. Maybe it was all my adult males I was around, were vets, and weary of guns and killing, but we were taught to always respect a gun, never point it at anyone, and to only shoot (unless a target of course) at anything unless we wanted to kill it. I hunted pheasants and ducks when I was 8 and 9- for those 2 years- and I kid you not- I carried an empty gun, and was told to act at all times, as if it was loaded and off safety. After those 2 years, at 10, I was allowed to go with a single shot. At 12, was allowed to go on my own, about 14-15 was allowed to go with a friend or two.
Guns are tools for me. I'd be like that old cowboy, using the pistol grip as a hammer to mend fence-
Now, guns seem to be so fascinating. Is that video games, cultures, what?
Whats the solution? for sure, tighter control on those buying guns. sure, criminals will always have guns, but not too worried about a career criminal shooting up a mall-
those doing these shootings, aren't criminals in the traditional sense, and in many cases, are getting the guns legally
I guess I can't see any harm in waiting periods- not too often one needs a gun NOW, and if so...one might wonder why......
and mental illness has to be addressed- and damn it, that means FUNDING-
the NRA NEEDS to be proactive on this- if they are the last bastion of gun rights then they need to be in front of this-
ah shite- the whole damn thing makes me sick to my stomach and I couldn;t even watch the videos coming out of this last one
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 15, 2012 8:56:21 GMT -6
Larry, I've had my issues with them over the years but I'll tell you who fights not only for gun rights but hunters rights are three fold.
Safari Club, Ussa and NRA. I talk to trappers and hunters in states that have been threatened and Invariably they tell me that the NRA and Safari Club are there when they need them.
I resigned from Ducks Unlimited years ago when I asked for support in our state Legislature and they told me no.
The point is all this fundraising for habitat isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell if we lose the political battles.
But back on to Pam's post, she almost makes it sound like it was somehow the fault of the NRA.
But my real thoughts are why should "I" be punished for what somebody else did?
Would waiting periods and tighter controls on buying guns, like you suggest Steve, have changed anything that happened yesterday? I think not.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 15, 2012 8:58:59 GMT -6
Let's not forget that there were tens of millions of us that didn't shoot a school up yesterday.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 15, 2012 9:04:13 GMT -6
thats a given Joel-
but the debate is going to happen-
if "we" don't come up with solutions, they will be given TO us
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 15, 2012 11:01:38 GMT -6
Boy is that statement appropriate to what is going on in our state right now.
Bear hunting and trapping are, and have been, under fire for two years right now.
I negotiated a setback from some high use trails near Reno in 2007. They came right back with the firearms congested area of Reno, then expanded to Vegas, then to trails outside of Vegas.
The bear hunt started from taking it out of the tahoe basin to taking dogs away, etc. etc.
I've tried the negotiation route and so has our Commission. I see the pyschology clearly.
We see it as go along get along, they see it as one victory in a string.
We're thinking like we're in it for one game, they look at it as a series.
I've been asking the question lately why it is that every time we have a trapping incident or a bear hunting incident we feel like we have to change a law? They don't do that everytime someone shoots more ducks or catches more fish do they?
Same with guns.
I've put everyone on notice for our association that anytime anybody asks for something I'm asking for something back. I've encouraged our sportsmans coalition to do the same.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 15, 2012 11:04:12 GMT -6
One more thing as far as guns go. The solutions you talk about being given to us will likely be given by the Supreme Court.
Your guy's appointments will likely determine what is "given" to us. I hope you get to stand by your man a fews years from now.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 15, 2012 11:47:32 GMT -6
I doubt if the courts will take a 2nd amendment case again anytime soon- or at least not any that had the far reaching potential of the case backed by the Bush administration that they lost
SC appointments were a very big reason I voted as I did.
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Post by James on Dec 15, 2012 14:19:20 GMT -6
"However, as with my friend's son who bounced around the sytem for years, the system can't handle them so they get sent back to their parents custody, out to fend for themselves, or put in jail, which really isn't a good solution either."
The mental health system is woefully underutilized and underfunded in our country. In small-town and rural areas especially, there probably isn't even one practicing psychiatrist. Many general MDs in these places aren't qualified and mis-prescribe medications.
Mental illness is complex and hard to treat. Seeing a psychiatrist is expensive and someone's problem usually takes many visits.
Obamacare is a step in the right direction. Many health insurance policies either haven't covered or at best provided very limited coverage for mental health issues.
There is still widespread ignorance in our society, resulting in a stigma against those who do seek help. As if the brain is not an organ like any other organ in the body. As if mental illness clearly isn't caused by biology or brain injuries.
All of these social issues combine to make it hard for the mentally ill to get proper treatment. We as a society can either act to change this, or we can face up to more loss or restriction of our gun rights.
Jim
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