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Post by Chamacat on Jan 20, 2010 8:45:56 GMT -6
Yep...I think that the terrain and trees/shrubs/catus..lol...has alot to do with the choice of a rifle caliber....I was looking at gunsamerica..most of you know about the website or gunbroker.com...AND...look what is a out there...whatever you choose you can get a FFL buddy of yours to accept the rifle...you pay no tax unless it's in your state...Anyway...I saw the rifle that is the rifle..lol..It's a 22-243 and I saw a 22-6MM...iffin you want a SMOKIN lightening fast 22 this is the rifle..I would imagine it pushes 60 grainers near 5000 fps...Something I would consider in common 300 yard shots to infininity...LOL...hope this helps..Carl
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Post by FWS on Jan 20, 2010 10:56:52 GMT -6
And blow a gaping exit hole out the off side.
I think there's a difference between a 'coyote rifle' and a rifle for harvesting fur.
For doing predator control or contest hunting, etc. the goal is a dead coyote regardless of pelt damage.
If'n you're harvesting fur and doing coyotes with the probability of taking cats you want no pelt damage.
I've seen a lot of very nice cats ruined by 22-250's.
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Post by monstertom on Jan 20, 2010 11:47:06 GMT -6
Living where I do in Colorado and haveing the option of Coyotes cats and fox at most any given time I've pretty much settled into three main fur guns. 1 Stil love my 222rem 52 gr at 2900 2 17 rem more when in cat country 25 grn at 3400 3 6x47 great night caliber minimal damage lots of thump 70grn @3000fps All equipt with 4.5x14 leupolds heavy duplex
Now with that said come summer and damage contol 100% coyote work my three main choices fall into 1 6mm international (6-250) 70 grn at 3500 2 6.5x284 120grn @ 3450 3 30x338win 165 at 3200 mostly long range den shooting or ambush work around bait piles. All equipt with 6.5x20 leupolds and corresponding click charts
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 20, 2010 17:07:50 GMT -6
chama not a good caliber for hunting. Too many get caught up in the speed issue, the problem is you can't get bullets in those small calibers to have reliable results on game/flesh when pushing a small pill at very fast speeds. Looks great on a crono or paper but the laws of physics take over and solid bone or dense muscle will be bad news for those super fast,small fragile pills.
Give me a reliable bullet, slower speed and better BC over small lighting fast barrel burners anyday for hunting purposes.
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Post by lb on Jan 20, 2010 22:35:32 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with that. Speed is great, especially for connecting, in the first place. But a solid bullet that punches through both sides is what I'm after. The hyper velocity light weight bullet is unreliable, under many different conditions and situations. Sure, a side presentation right in the boiler room at 100 yards is easy to do and produces spectacular results. And some ugly failures, if you deviate from the winning formula. Maybe not this time, but eventually, the animal moves and you make a bad hit and you have a runner, maybe unrecoverable?
There will be some sage on here that will point out that if you do your part, the animal dies, etc. The problem is this isn't a video game and in the real world, things happen and an inch either way can be a huge mistake, especially with subcalibers and hyper velocity.
There is no question that more gun kills better. So, tell me where I'm wrong?
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Post by Chamacat on Jan 21, 2010 9:41:51 GMT -6
Yep..I was browsing when I found those two caliber rifles..22-243 and the 22-6mm...They are wildcat rifles I guess.. the rifles are sold with the dies it takes to load the rifle with...I would imagine that a rifle such as these loaded at the top end velocity's would make the rifling and throat. ...lizard skin...In no time flat...lol
lb...I have never shot full metal jacket bullet's..But I handload and can do it...In the above post that is what your saying right?..A bullet that enters and exits...thus being a FMJ...Carl
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Post by lb on Jan 21, 2010 10:51:05 GMT -6
Nope, to the FMJ. Not a good choice at full velocities, perhaps not even at reduced velocities?
All it takes is a heavier constructed jacket. This is fairly easy to acquire, in heavier for caliber bullet weights. I just stay away from J4 and light squirrel bullets that have a thin jacket material. In 22-250Ackley, I use a 65gr. HP that just steams right through both sides and kills via hydrostatic shock at high velocity. A FMJ, on the other hand will give unpredictable terminal results just like hyper velocity light for caliber bullets, such as 45 grainers.
Bottom line, a heavier bullet is an all around bullet. It handles every conceivable situation, close, far, big/small animal, wind, better ballistics, poor bullet placement, etc. (within reason)
They are traveling faster at extended range and have more remaining foot pounds of energy than the small pills that shed velocity rather quickly. Well, there is room for some debate on that issue; if you start fast enough, but physics is still physics, in terms of terminal performance. Agreed?
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Post by Chamacat on Jan 22, 2010 9:12:49 GMT -6
Yep..Learn something new all the time..I do have a .223 and a 22-250...I will look in my manuals and see what brands offer what models in a little heavier bullet..My shelves are full of ballastic tip Hornandy's and Nosler's...lol...Thanks lb...Carl
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jan 22, 2010 13:03:46 GMT -6
I'm not in a lot of you guys league for coyote shooting. I've paid attention over the years and at this point in time I don't care if I hit a coyote if it has a hole that I have to sew up. Even some that don't need sewing don't get skinned anymore.
So I use my .17 remington because I don't see any difference in it between my 22-250 as far as killing coyotes out to 300 yards or so. I don't have holes to worry about and that is my main concern.
So what if I don't kill an extra one out of 20 that I shoot at? And frankly I'm not convinced that I lose that many.
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Post by monstertom on Jan 22, 2010 13:54:15 GMT -6
I see to many FUR hunters piss and moan about fur damage with a 243, 22-250 etc. just because a gun will shoot a bullet at god awfull velocities doesn't mean you have to, My old 22-250 shot 52 grn pills at 3000fps with minimal damage now crank that same pill upto the 3600 that the book says it can. and grab the needle. One reason I settled on a 6x47 that 70 grn ballistic tip on coyotes goes in comes apart leaves a 1 1/2" exit, but on most cats and fox it is only about 1/2 expanded as it leaves the exit side.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 23, 2010 8:37:09 GMT -6
monster you can do the same with a .243 and a well constructed bullet. My 95 nosler hunting bullets run 2930fps and do a great job on coyotes both as far as dead and pelt damage, which is a side bonus to my load selection as dead and first and foremost for me.
Don't want shoulder splash or runners. Not shooting cats just coyotes.
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Post by monstertom on Jan 23, 2010 19:39:52 GMT -6
In the mid eighties I shot alot of coyotes with a 243 mostly at night 100grn down about 2700 worked like a charm. to many guys don't experiment enough.
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diogee
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 10
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Post by diogee on Mar 29, 2010 18:17:39 GMT -6
I like my 22-250 AI and my 204 Ruger, topped with a LEE-O-POLD scope, and a McMillan Remington hunter stock.
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Post by borderbandit on Mar 29, 2010 20:30:35 GMT -6
Not familar with LEE-O-POLD scope? Who makes it, are they any good?
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diogee
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 10
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Post by diogee on Mar 30, 2010 14:43:32 GMT -6
Some of the guys that get DRT's use them LEE-O-POLD , gold ring scopes. I hear most people like them.
:^)
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Post by fishadict on Nov 11, 2011 21:07:49 GMT -6
LB - Why the .22-250 recommendation over a .243? I am planning on getting a 250, but why your rec. on that over the .243? Thanks.
fa
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Post by lb on Nov 14, 2011 11:08:32 GMT -6
Is that what I did? I just reviewed a few posts back and didn't see it. But.
Generally speaking, forgetting about bullet selection for a minute, you cannot tell with certainty, which dead coyote was killed with either rifle.
I think, for strictly ADC, a 243 is a great choice, but not as good for connecting at longer range. I think a good bullet in 22-250 Ackley can do anything a 243 can ever be expected to do on a coyote and more.
gh....lb
edit: full disclosure/my most recent "coyote gun" is chambered in 22/243Middlested. I am not at the point of recommending it, however.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 14, 2011 20:25:21 GMT -6
I would say at long range out to 600 yards in standard factory guns a 243 is great at doing what it needs to on a coyote. 95 grain bullets with higher BC and more down range energy does the trick really well. While not as flat shooting as a 22-250, I would rather have the higher BC bullet and most long range shots are at coyotes you get time to range and dope making shot placement more precise anyhow.
My .243 savage using Hornady brass and h-4350 powder and Nosler 95 grain bal tips is a solid shooter out to ranges I can be effective and then some.
Love the accu trigger and accu stock!
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Post by fishadict on Nov 15, 2011 21:30:35 GMT -6
LB - Waaay back in 2009 on the first page, you suggested a 22-250 with 55 grain bullets. I inferred you preferred it over a 243 and was curious as to why. Thanks for the info. TC39, thanks for the insight on the 243 also. Probably should have both, huh?
fa
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 16, 2011 7:14:09 GMT -6
Interesting discussion. I happen to have a 22-6mm "CJ" with heavy, 26" stainless Shilen barrel. Had it built in 92 and it has been my coyote gun ever since. It's been a tack driver since day one., and remains so to this day. Dont abuse em, clean them regular and throat ware is a non-issue. Its a calling rifle..how many shots are you gonna fire at a time? Yes you would ruin it in a hurry on a PD town, but that's not what its for.
My favorite bullet was the 50gr. Nozler solid base, zippin along at about 4500fps. Dumped coyotese as if hit by a bolt of lighting. They never take a step. Shoulder hits, lung hits it dont matter....lungs are turned to liquid. Fur gun?.... to date I've never had an exit hole. NEVER!
Then of course Nozler quit making the 50 gr, solid base, so back to drawing board. The 50 gr. BT would blow up on impact unless speed was reduced considerably. Had several coyotes run off with a nasty a surface wound on the shoulder. Hornady 50 and 52 grainers.. LOL Never reach the target in tact. You'd swear I was shooting blanks when testing loads on paper. I eventually gave in and went up to a 55 gr Nozler BT and while I dont push it quite as fast the performance equals that of the old solid base. Super accurate, flat shooting, little wind drift, no exits, and dumps coyotes like the Hammer of Thor.
All this talk about "too much speed" Poppy Cock!
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