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Post by CoonDuke on Apr 15, 2009 12:40:48 GMT -6
I am thinking about purchasing a 17 fireball. I would prefer a sporter weight rifle but want to see hits in the scope.
For 17 rem shooters, can you see impact in the scope in a sporter weight rifle? I figure if a sporter weight 17 Rem is heavy enough to see hits in the scope a fireball should work just as good if not better...
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Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Apr 15, 2009 13:31:49 GMT -6
duke i can see hits in my 204 sporter weight...so you sld def be able to see the hits of a 17....
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Post by dancarey on May 2, 2009 19:20:38 GMT -6
You can see the bullet impact with a sporter weight rifle, however don't blink that little 17 cal bullet is fast.
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Post by lyotehunter on Oct 30, 2009 20:36:09 GMT -6
go with the 17.rem,it is deadly out to 400yds.if you shoot enough to be efficent.in my experience the 25.gr. bergers are the best bullet for coyotes.i have used mine for 20yrs. i hardley use my 22-250 for callin any more
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Post by lb on Oct 30, 2009 22:49:42 GMT -6
Is that the real Dan Carey, World Champion and the original Monster?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 3, 2009 17:28:08 GMT -6
coonduke could I ask why a .17? What is your primary use? If coyotes IMO much better rounds out there. My .243 has half the bullet drift and almost 8x's the ft lbs at 400 yrds versus a .17 rem. a 22-250 has almost half the drift and almost 5x's the power of the .17 rem. Remember even the berger .17 bullet only has a BC of .150. the nolser 55 grain bal tip has a BC at .267 and the 95 grain .243 has a BC of .379. Keep the distance shorter and you will be good with proper placement stretch the range, add wind deflection and less than ideal shot placements and a bigger caliber with a better BC bullet is the way to go for coyotes IMO.
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Post by CoonDuke on Nov 3, 2009 18:02:23 GMT -6
I wanted it for occasional fox and coyotes but mainly for varmints. Just wanted a fur friendly gun that can serve double duty.
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Post by borderbandit on Nov 4, 2009 15:13:41 GMT -6
The .17 Fireball will be fine for "called" coyotes,or anything ese of that size or smaller.Everybody has their favorite, more power to them, but nothing is wrong with the .17 cals for "called" coyotes, which are at least in my experience, coyotes called to within under 100 yards, and most being under 60 yards. Some fellas enjoy shooting longshots and drive-by coyotes, but for called coyotes, BC is way down on the list of things I would worry about, in fact, it never crosses my mind. Same for wind drift of the .17, versus other big calibers, at 60 yards, it's just not a factor. Get your .17 and go happily about calling coyotes and fox, great little cartridge by the way.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 4, 2009 15:56:14 GMT -6
Bullet BC means alot when hunting in open terrian and areas where a "calm" wind is rare!
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Post by borderbandit on Nov 4, 2009 16:59:22 GMT -6
At 40-60 yards, even a stiff wind makes little to no difference between your 243 and a .17 rem, in all likelyhood, none I would suspect?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 4, 2009 17:37:11 GMT -6
Not all coyotes at least in this area come to within 60 yrds for sure. I want them dead or need them dead. At times that means much longer shots than 60 yrds is needed. I don't want to be under gunned and want a bullet that will have much better wind deflection and more stopping power when I need to make those longer shots.
Some areas receive quite a little calling pressure and if I can get them to show them selves or if they hang up at 300 or 400 I want a gun that will get the job done. If I could get them all under 70 yrds I would use nothing but my shotgun stuffed with dead coyote or 4 buck. Reality is they don't all come close and those that don't I have the bullet with higher BC to ensure a high% of them don't get away.
I have never been a fan of the varmint type bullets either and I like a hunting jacket for coyotes, as if shot placement is off a little I have the bullet that will compensate for that. I can't say the same for thin jacketed varmint type offerings on coyote sized critters. I hate bullet splash, been there done that don't like it.
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Post by borderbandit on Nov 4, 2009 20:57:05 GMT -6
Always interesting the differences in experiences, I hunt a good deal of very open terrain, a lot of which is very similar to your rolling grass hills of the Dakotas', and BC means absolutely nothing to me. I use nothing but the wee calibers, .17s' and .19s', I own nothing bigger, nor wish to. Lots of predators hunters in my part of the state, and I'll be damned if the coyotes still don't come from way out as far as you can spot them, to 40-50 yards in front of the gun, where the low BC, high wind drifty little .17s', kill them stone dead. I always wonder how those "hang-ups" don't starve to death?, hearing the dying rabbit, but sit out there 400 yards staring at it, and never scampering in to eat it?, they must become vegetarian???
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 5, 2009 6:58:20 GMT -6
not all coyotes that approach the call are in "need" of food. In those heavy pressuered areas they use there eye's as much as they do there ears. If hunting trully pressuered areas the rabbitt blues is low on my use list. Coyotes eat plenty of vegitative matter when needed and also alot of insects as well. You have a black beetle sound?
Use what you will, but to say the 17 or 19 's are all anyone needs to kill coyotes on a consistant basis is off. I don't know anyone in coyote control work that uses such a small caliber. tiny,fast,highly frangable bullet and body mass of coyote No thanks. Add in longer shots as needed and wind and bone again no thanks. Bullet splash is something I don't want to encounter anymore and the .243 higher BC bullet makes that a reality.
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Post by borderbandit on Nov 5, 2009 12:36:54 GMT -6
Lesson number one grasshopper.......stay off the shoulder, regardless of the various shoulder mounted cannons one may choose to use. Lesson number two, coyotes have relatively poor visual acuity, something on the order of 20/75, 400 out, and they can't distinguish you from a fence post:)
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 5, 2009 17:23:43 GMT -6
I don't need to stay off the shoulder with my .243, because I'm shooting a bullet with a better jacket than any varmint bullet made for coyotes. If I misjudge drift then my caliber and bullet selection makes up for that grasshopper. Has nothing to do with them seeing me on stand grasshopper, it is the pressure applied in the same areas that will cause some to hang up. Some won't cross a more open area and some are denning in areas that If I try a tighter approach there going to see you approaching. I have heard it all before how "some" can get every coyote in their lap, sorry don't work that way here. These coyotes are pursued year round, by me and my work, by rec callers, by many ranchers, when you live in open range sheep country the persecution level on coyotes goes up alot. So again I'll tell you if I could get them all to within 70 yrds the shotgun would be my weapon of choice, that not being the case or possible I choose to shoot a caliber that has the energy, BC and jacket construction to make me the most efficient, that isn't going to be a .17, .19 or I have found through time even a .22 caliber rifle. Your pee shooters are a limited weapon because of the low BC, and bullets made and the speed they go, laws of physics will tell you tough to hold together on bone. I don't have that worry, no runners with the bullet I use in my "Cannon" I don't care if I hit that coyote in the shoulder bone at 400 or right behind the shoulder as I know the bullet is going to get the job done. I have the utmost confidance in shooting to 400 yrds and more if I need to. Most shots are 100-150 yrds, then 200-300 and less past that but I can make the shot because of the higher BC bullet. You want to keep shooting the pee shooters great, not for me or the work I do. Thanks for the insight grasshopper. Sorry CoonDuke this thread has got off your intended topic, if you want to shoot a .17 great, I'm sure border bandit could help you out with that. I'll stick with my canon. Watch them bang and flop!
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 6, 2009 8:39:31 GMT -6
I use (d) a .17 because I got tired of sewing pelts up shot with my 22/250. I figured why bother if it was just going to be left on the side of the road with a big hole on it?
I remember going to a contest a few years back and the wind was howling. I swore if I ever entered another contest I'd use my .300 win mag it's shoots as well as my .250 and 200 grains bucks the wind pretty well. lol!!
If the idea is to just get em dead I figured the mag made sense on a windy day
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 6, 2009 16:05:24 GMT -6
Not much sewing needed with the .243 and the bullet I use. While not a concern of mine it has proven to be an ideal round for deadness and pelts. I was surprised. Thinking about it though a great combination, 1-9 twist 95 grain well built bullet not going at mach 4 ! 2940 fps and does a better than average job on the fur. Far better than the splashy ones shot with mach 4 and lighter jacket construction smaller bullets.
If I was to use my 22-250 again I would shoot 60 grain nosler partitions as it is built to do a better job on coyotes than the eye catching varmint type offerings. A 60 grain accu bond would be a great bullet for a 22-250 a shade higher BC and construction to do well on coyotes at long ranges, when everything isn't ideal. No such offering as of yet.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 6, 2009 16:49:18 GMT -6
I don't shoot all that many coyotes but I've never noticed any difference in my .17 and my 22-250 except for fur damage.
The .17 dings em dead at 300+- which is about all I ask. That's about as far as I'm willing to walk out and drag one back. lol!!
Interesting thing is that I have less fur damage with the .300 on the coyotes I've shot with it than I do with the .250. Just kind of leaves a .30 caliber hole in em. Coming and going.
Joel
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 6, 2009 17:00:35 GMT -6
because of bullet construction and speed. It is the combination of the two. Hence the .243 doing a rather nice job.
Look no real beef but look at that 25 grain .17 bullet at 300-500 yrds in the FT lb category 300 178ftlbs 400 103ftlbs 500 64.8ftlbs
compare that with a .243 95 grain bullet going 1,000 fps slower than the 17
300 1031ftlbs 400 836ftlbs 500 673ftlbs
with a .243 it retains twice the energy at 1,000 yrds than the .17 at 400 yards.
Efficiency: larger bullet, slower speed, more energy and less wind drift. The key is bullet selection you have that above .22 caliber you don't at 22 or less. That has been my point. One tries to overcome BC with speed .17, the other uses BC and being more efficant at a slower speed. small pills and fast speeds can have bad outcomes, that outcome gets worse the more you increase range and wind.
Take your 300 or my 243 and load it up with lighter bullets with thin jackets and we both would see a real mess, just as many do with 22 caliber bullets designed for varmints, a coyote is not a varmint IMO, they are built alot tougher and more body mass, light bullet, thin jacket 3,600+ FPS and body mass and a bone or two= blown up fur and splashy results on bone contact.
I liken the 17 to a 22 LR hard to make a big mess becuase of the weight involved but what happens when you hit a solid shoulder with either on "most" coyotes??? Extend the range and the ft lbs drops off fast.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 7, 2009 9:37:50 GMT -6
TC I don't have a problem with a .243, I think everything you say here is right on. I had a 6mm once but it was in a short barreled Rem 660 and I never could get much accuracy out of it. I was young and the 22.250 was the thing, either that or the swift so I went 22,250.
I've seen the splash with the Hornady varmint bullets and I've sewn a hundred coyotes with regular Sierra softpoints. I've shot coyotes 9 times with FMJ because they wouldn't kill them.
If I was just killing coyotes I'd probably shoot exactly what your shooting. Anymore though I don't have a lot of interest in coyotes. If I shoot one he's either going to be an easy hike, good color, and no hole or I'm just going to keep driving to the next cat set.
The accuracy that I get out of my .17 is phenomenal, the accuracy out of my .250 is OK but not what I get with the .17. I'm sure it's just the guns and not the calibers.
My .300 is more accurate than my .250 and I've tried all kinds of bullets and powders.
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