What would a howling calendar look like

[k9]

One thing I am going to get better at is calling.

So I would be interested in knowing the times of year that the coyote's responses change. I know there are times they are more prone to answer a howl or siren, times when they are shut mouths. Would one or several of you lay out a typical year, and what sounds are most effective for what times of the year? Also a little lesson in coyote behavior, why do you think those sounds are appealing at one time, and may actually deter coyotes the next?

For example, it is my understanding that when there is a high number of juveniles, say in the fall, a challenge type barking or howling is likely to scare most off, as they are too timid.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[Brad H]

I use strictly prey distress sounds till January. Nothing in particular, no sound that's meant to be anything, just high pitched distress sounds of different intensities.

Even the high pitched yips from a howler will bring in the YOY. Sundown is a very high percentage response time for this area. Probably 70% of the coyotes I've called in here have been at that time.

I tried howling at the beginning of January this year and it really tripped their trigger then in this area. Pairs were very eager to come in.

I think when the urge for a coyote to mate kicks in, howling will work well and continue to work till the fur is no longer worth peeling off the coyote.

Brad

[Wiley]

K9,

Your question is difficult because there is so many variables to consider.

Four important variables are:

1. Calling pressure in your area
2. What prey species are most predominant
3. Coyote population in the area
4. Adult coyotes vs. juveniles


Mix those variables up and you can have every combination in the book for what sounds will be most effective.

If you are calling juvenile coyotes in an area where juvenile coyotes are getting their butts kicked by adult coyotes, your success with howling ON JUVENILE COYOTES will be limited.

If you are using prey distress sounds that are foreign to a particular area, they will be less effective.

In many situations, combining howling with prey distress sounds will be effective unless that's what everyone else is doing. Just like fishing, you need to try different things until you see what works.



~SH~

[richc]

k9,
Your best bet is to talk an experienced coyote man into taking you out with him for a couple of days. On a bulletin board, you will get a few good tips and also some bad advice. It is too hard to filter out good advice from the bad. Howling works all year around, but seems best from May thru July or so, and then get's hot again come mating time (jan-febr). Always remember that coyotes often approach the sound of a howl, and they often do this in silence. Just because you hear no vocal response to your howl does not necessarily mean you don't have a coyote on it,s way to check you out

[k9]

Thanks for all your reponses. I am not into the ADC like Wiley, so any howling done in summer or off season is purely to hear one yap back at me.
So do you guys prefer a siren, or a howler for location? If you have a preference..... Why?

Also Rich thank you for the video of the guy voice howling that you put on the coyotegods forum. Now I drive down the road practicing that, as if I am not dorky looking enough. Very impressive voice howling.

Also your sound files are very good. I am not technical enough to figure out how you do that, but very informative.

[richc]

romans117,
There is a good reason that I was careful to not single out any particular advise that I consider flawed. I will not be involved in a game of harsh words over the internet. I am too old and wise for that. Today is the 4th of july. I hope you enjoy a lot of good food and relaxation today. My United states flag is flying proudly today. I will be thinking of all the good men who have died for our freedom, and the good men who are fighting for out freedom even as I type this. If you happen to drive past my home today, be sure to stop for a free pop and something to eat. I betcha there will be plenty of food around here today also.

[k9]

Happy 4th to all of you from my house also. Rich I am going to make sure our paths cross someday, as I would like to meet you. If you go to the NTA or Iowa Trappers Conventions, let me know as I will hunt you up. Do you hunt in the Loess hills at all? Some of western Iowa just looks like good coyote country to me.

Any opinions on sirens VS howling to locate, from any of you guys?

[richc]

k9,
The Loess hills area is about the only place I bother with trying to call coyotes here in western Iowa. Too steep to farm in there, and a man can still find a few willing customers for the calling sounds. This ain't like the dakotas or some places in nebraska though. My old favorite coyote country is still north texas, but even that area ain't what it once was. Then again, I ain't what I once was either. The only coyote man I know who gets better with age is Wiley E, and I heard a rumor that even HE is getting a bit paunchy. Lord I apologize for what I just said about Wiley and please be with the starving pygmy's down there in Africa. Amen

[richc]

"Any opinions on sirens VS howling to locate, from any of you guys?"
---------------
K9,
These Iowa coyotes are pretty shutmouthed in daytime, at least the ones here in western Iowa are. Some of the sirens are louder than mouth blown howlers, so they MAY be a bit better for locating at night. I believe you mentioned earlier that you don't hunt coyotes during summer. Are you just wanting to hear coyotes howl back?

[k9]

I just want to know as much as possible about hunting them, in case I need to kill one in the summer time. In my mind, the more I understand about coyote behavior, year round, the more I understand coyotes which is key to killing them at will.

I have a small hand held siren and have gotten howling reponses from using it. Also when I was actually on patrol for the county, I would at times go out at night and hit the patrol car siren to hear them howl back at me.

The key time I am interested in, is early to mid fall, right before trapping season. I assumed that the youngsters, may be deterred to answer back to aggressive howling since they are not of a dominate mindset. However, I was being close minded and only thinking of howls as a locating tool, when in fact from your and other responses I see that it is a calling tool.

My goal would be to go out at say 4am and get howling responses, to determine which section the coyote is in, then come back at shooting light and try to call it. I can see that a siren is better for that, as it should invoke a howling response, without triggering a coyote to come to the call. However sirens nor howling seem to be a 100% way to locate coyotes, as not all will answer them.

The only ways I have seen to really locate coyotes otherwise, are just my experience and knowledge of this area, and the coyotes in this area, and a good fresh tracking snow that let's me determine which section they are in.

I do some howling in the summer and talk back and forth with them now, just mainly to get used to coyote talk, and see how they respond. I have tapes and other educational stuff to refer to, but frankly I like your audio clips you put onto another forum, and also the voice howling the guy from I think Montana does. Now that is neat stuff right there!

I am impressed with guys who know coyote talk. I was with Slim Pederson calling in Iowa a couple years ago. He yelped out a little coyote talk and I heard what I thought was a coyote answering from a ways across the section. Slim and the "coyote" chatted back and forth a bit, no coyote came to the call. While listening to the responding "coyote" I could not get over the fact that the sound appeared to be coming from a cluster of residences to our southeast, that we could see from our stand.

As we were walking out and could talk freely, no longer worried about keeping noise down, I told Slim I thought that coyote was going to come in, and he told me it wasn't a coyote, it was someone using a call from the residences southeast of us.

I am not only impressed by guys who can talk to coyotes, but am also impressed by guys who know the difference.

[richc]

romans117 said:

What specifically would be bad advice from my post Rich? Please pass judgment.

Please pass judgment? Ok Romans, I think you hunt coyotes in best way you know how. That is a very good thing. Your opinion is just as good as mine when it comes to howling coyotes to the gun.

[richc]

K9,
Coyotes have been known to approach the sound of one of those had held sirens also. Your idea of locating at 4:A.M. sounds somewhat good. Just remember that coyotes hunt and move around a lot at night. What you are actually doing when you locate at night is locating where the coyote or coyotes are at that time. During denning season this can help locate denning area's. Understand coyote language? No human being understands coyote language. The best we can do is listen to coyotes, take careful note of the "inflection" in it's voice and try to learn what a coyote sounds like when he is frustrated, when he is angry and etc. I am not an expert in coyote language. I learn from the coyotes and I learn from guys like Scott Huber, Cal Taylor, Murphy Love and a few others that are very good at luring coyotes in to rifle or shotgun range by use of coyote talk. I know that there are men who know much more than I do about this subject. When they talk, I listen.

[k9]

I'm listening....

[k9]

If you tell me about your coon I will believe you.

You have the same opinion as I do about "quiet sections" of land. This is something I use while coyote trapping, and sounds like you use it in your calling. I like those big unbroken sections that have few roads through them. Around here lots of them are in river areas or up against interstates. I firmly believe that coyotes go through a reality check from about September on, and start spending a lot of time in those quieter sections.

The coyotes whole world is habitat here in Iowa now that the corn and beans are big enough to hide in. They can loaf and wander at will until the bean fields get harvested, then big machines alter that part of the coyote's world. Next big machines alter the corn field part of the coyotes world.

The coyote still uses these areas, but I think he uses them differently, becoming more edge oriented and not spending as much time there as he could have when crops were standing.

Then here on the pheasant season opening weekend it is time for a major shock to a young wayward coyote. I think then they get driven to quiet areas and into brush piles. Those big sections that do not get walked completely, and those quiet timber pastures are the place to be. I think you see a more nocturnal, hinkier coyote than he used to be, because if not he is carrying a load of bird shot in his butt.

Then here deer season starts and he is forced to go to brush piles and other such locations and hunker down. This place is like a war zone during deer season, and quite frankly I hate it.

I think after deer season, they then settle down a notch, but are forever bearing scars from thier experience. I think those big sections is where they feel safest, and spend the most time of all places.

[lb]

I have not seen any bad advice on this thread, to this point. There are many different methods that suit certain conditions and parts of the country. I get fooled, regularly. I have used some methods that work for me, but they may not work in Kansas. A lost pup howl is very good, any time of the year. And, not to dispute something previously stated, but it is my belief that a coyote does not become conditioned to a howl, any howl, in the same way as they become suspicious of a rabbit distress.

Now, what's the deal? I do not believe a coyote knows that the distress, bird, goat, rabbit, injured pup, etc. is being made by a human. Rather than that, the coyote likely believes that a human is killing a rabbit, hit by a car, or what have you?

Now, what does a coyote "think" when he hears a howl? In my oninion, he is more likely to assume that it is safe to approach because that strange coyote would not be over there, if there were humans in the area, therefore it is "more safe". The theory being that he wouldn't be there if a human was around. He may not go over there to be beat up, but at least he knows that the coast is clear, if he is brave enough. That other coyote is telling him that it's safe, and if he thinks it is a pup, well, who is afraid of a pup, right?

They usually approach a proper howl silenty, observantly. But, they are looking for another coyote, not a human killing a rabbit. I do not think that a coyote knows a fake howl when he hears it, but he does respond in a direct relationship to the message he hears. An invitation is different, a hurt pup is different and a lone howl is different as to how he approaches a stand, or decides not to approach.......maybe because it is coming from another coyote's territory, and he respects that. But, he will check it out from safety. That's the job of the hunter, to convince a coyote that it is in his best interests to see who or what is howling, way over there. I'd be careful of challenge or threat barks becausethat is only going to affect the alpha pair. I have much better luck with nonconfrontational howls, they attract the most animals, any coyote will investigate a hurt pup or a lost pup, but there are few coyotes that respond to a challenge. If you are targeting an alpha male, that's fine, but I'm not very choosy which coyote responds, so I invite all of them to check it out. Depends on what you are hearing, a challenge does have it's place, but on the other hand, more than likely, you will just trade insults with another coyote for thirty minutes, maybe longer? I don't want to invest that much time targeting such a small percentage of the coyote population, therefore, I do both certain howls and certain distress sounds. Seems to work in my areas.

Good hunting. LB

[k9]

So LB or any of you guys do you meet a challenge with a challenge? In other words if the responding coyote starts belting out a challenge are you ahead to just copy what he is doing? Or would you stick with submissive tones?

I have been told by some people to just try to repeat whatever the responding coyote is doing, but my common sense tells me that is probably not right.

Calling is a lot like trapping. Your example, about a coyote being more likely to respond to sounds of thier own kind, is much like using urine and droppings in trapping. Coyotes can get lure shy, hole shy, etc etc, but they must respond to the smells and sign of thier own kind. Urine left there by another coyote is like a disclaimer, making the responding coyote drop his guard or have a false sense of security, much like your howling example. Makes good sense.

[lb]

Actually, I cannot agree that volume in a distress sound is a negative. No more than I can agree that "realistic" pauses entice a coyote more than continuous and monotonous sound. Toss the logic out the window. Coyotes do not (normally) get spooky because you (or I) think we are using too much volume. Coaxing a hung up coyote is a different thing, muted volume and changing the direction of where the sound is projected, can be a very good tool. My opinions are not based on something such as two months of 20-25 calls, whatever that might mean? More like several decades of success; I have a fair idea of what works, but nothing is guaranteed, which is why you have to be versatile.

Good hunting. LB

[lb]

Never is a long time. Anything can happen depending on circumstances. I have had coyotes show up within feet of a maxed out speaker and not seem to notice that the volume is beyond anything reasonable. Occasionally, they start getting shy if they are too close and the volume is too high. On the other hand, I have witnessed, (a number of times) where you adjust the volume on a hard charging coyote.......and THAT causes him to check up.

Therefore, I find it difficult to make statements which include words like always and never. We will "never" write the definitive book on coyote behavior. The coyote is a complicated animal and a worthy opponent.

I do believe in doing what works for you, and I will do what works for me. I have a deep bag of tricks for special circumstances, when I need it. Some of those tricks will likely go to the grave with me. On the other hand, being on these boards for almost ten years now, I freely share many things that have worked for me, in the past. Some has value to some people and some will find little with which to agree. All any of us can do is share what we know and the reader will have to decide what is useful, and what is not.

Good hunting. LB

"We think loud is great, but I know they know something is not right when thumper is screaming so loud why wouldn't that apply to howling?"

"I didn't say volume was the issue."

Sorry, I assumed you were? LB

[jrbhunter]

This is like watching Hold Em' on TV.... where you can see everyone's cards.

[richc]

k9 said:

So LB or any of you guys do you meet a challenge with a challenge? In other words if the responding coyote starts belting out a challenge are you ahead to just copy what he is doing? Or would you stick with submissive tones?

I have been told by some people to just try to repeat whatever the responding coyote is doing, but my common sense tells me that is probably not right.

K9,
I used to advise answering a challenge with a challenge of your own. Now I believe that it is a crap shoot. Sometimes a challenge will put the coyote right in your lap, but other times you just end up trading cuss words with the coyote. Sometimes I think it is smarter to stick with non agressive howls and pup squeals. This calling game does not have rules that are carved in stone.