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Post by trappnman on Dec 23, 2008 15:35:47 GMT -6
how can you not be on location?
After Nimrod. Sense 2, probably from the phrase "poor little Nimrod," used by the cartoon character Bugs Bunny to mock the hapless hunter Elmer Fudd.]
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Post by gcs on Dec 23, 2008 16:16:21 GMT -6
I've tried that lure, smells good enough for a dessert topping, But I never caught a rat on it, maybe my rats have no sense of smell.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 23, 2008 16:40:23 GMT -6
if you believe rat lure makes a difference by all means use it, use it at every set if you need to-
I guess I never seen any big numbers rat men, use lure- and I've been around big number rat men all my life- but Im sure you can come up with a few- just saying not here-
now- like the colored pipes, I've used both lure and bait- many times, over many years-
WHY? cause I believed what I read in the ads-
and with all the options I've tried, I've NEVER seen where lure or bait makes a difference
baited under ice sets 110s different story-
what does lure do to the location that not havng the lure there doesn't?
and ANY location that you can set a trap, you can make attractant to rats lure or no lure-
so please- give me a scenario where lure would produce, when unlured sets would not-
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Dec 23, 2008 19:14:22 GMT -6
"how can you not be on location?
I dont know you tell me.
Your the one who said:
If you can't look at rat habitat- and I don't care WHAT type- and not catch them on locaiton- then I don't know what to tell you-"
I want to know what to do if I cant get to said location or quite frankly if I am too lazy to get to said location.
Like I say I am nuetral to lure really.
how about this do you think rats use their noses much, or is predominately sight.
I really havent given it much thought because about 90 percent of the rats I ever caught have been in huts.
Never have had enough time to do serious open water trapping for rats.
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Post by CoyoteMan50 on Dec 23, 2008 19:58:06 GMT -6
I've been Trapping Muskrat for 38 to 39 years and all I have to say about using Bait or Lure is that it has it place. but for the most part it is not needed.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 23, 2008 20:56:29 GMT -6
you can't get to where the rats are?
I don't think rats go far out of their way for anything- I think they have a very small range- which changes as food osurces change-
rats have to eat- rats have to rest- rats have to defecate-
and they do it in probably the smallest home range of any furbearer with tyhe exception of weasel and them I know nothing about- and you aren't going to draw them out of that range-
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Post by bblwi on Dec 23, 2008 21:29:18 GMT -6
I am coming late to the party but here are my thoughts based on my experiences
Small river trapping with footholds in wadable type rivers. Earlier in my trapping when I blitzed the area (Jim Spencer definition) where I would set heavy for 3 days and pull I found an advantage on the under cover shelf sets along the edges by using lures as I missed fewer rats by having them go over the traps better. I did not catch any more rats total I had fewer misses and caught more in the shorter time frame. On large marshes setting feed beds and on houses I found no advantage other than catching more coons in those sets. I have not used a rat lure for 6-7 years but probably will again on the river line next fall. I use MTPs and Leo Hoefts rat lures mostly and I use Q tips to give you an idea of the amount I used. I just wanted that rat to cross the trap in a more efficient manner.
Over the years I have become better at placing the trap where the rats are more likely to move through or to and that was one reason I reduced lure usage. The other is just saving time on the line. I have found most rat lures to very good coon lures as well and that is one reason I used them longer than may have been beneficial just for rats. Bryce
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 23, 2008 22:16:37 GMT -6
I don't use much lure or bait for rats but the best rat trapper I ever met did.
The guy caught 33,000 rats one year, he had an airplane and two sons. Bid on every rat marsh in the West.
He would have one son go set up camp at one marsh while he and the other sons wiped the rats out of one marsh, then he'd fly to the next place and work with that son while the other one hauled camp to a new refuge and they'd start over again.
I met him on the Ruby Marshes back in the early 80's and he took me with him and showed me how he did it there.
He had a v hull boat with a 10 horse motor and he'd blast full speed up on a bunch of tules next to a rat house and throw a trap on the feed bed and a handful full of chopped oranges behind the trap. Made no attempt to get the trap under water or anything.
Once done he'd turn the motor around and blast off backwards and roar off to the next place.
I had been tooling around in my flat bottom duck boat with a 3 horse motor, getting the trap all nice and neat under water.
I was catching 30-40 rats a day, Sherm was catching 300-400.
He trapped the big Utah duck marshes around the Great Salt Lake, the ones in Nevada, Tule Lake California and other California refuges, Oregon, and some others I can't remember them all.
I learned a lot from him about just pure production.
Joel
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Post by bblwi on Dec 23, 2008 22:23:57 GMT -6
Joel sort of like the "bull moose in the China shop" but then if your business is recycling broken China your good to go! LOL
Any fat cats lately or are you taking an Ebenezer Scrooge rare Christmas Holiday break? LOL
Bryce
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 23, 2008 22:30:29 GMT -6
I pulled everything today, the snow is a foot deep or more and drifted bad. If I was to stay up in the mountains I'd need the snowmachine.
I'm going into a lower elevation desert after I rest up and eat some good food off of a clean plate.
I had to leave my trailer up there as the roads are still icy and steep.
Joel
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Dec 24, 2008 8:45:49 GMT -6
Define far out of their way.
I realize that their range is small but when I pull up to a small roadside pond I know where I am going to put my traps before the car stops rolling most of the time.
I guess I feel why walk even twenty yards when I feel I can take em pretty much where ever I want at my choosing as long as they are swimming by.
I understand that on streams and creeks that you need to go to the habitat.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 24, 2008 9:04:30 GMT -6
now you are making me guess- I've had lured sets, which caught nothing, move them 20 feet away and they become hotspots-
I've watch a lot of rats swimming and going about their business- and their activities always seem to be measured in feet not acres- Creek rats for example, often work a 30-50 foot stretch of bank, and no more
ponds, it seems like even smaller range of activities-
but I can't give you an range in feet- but more observation- I think rats have set range- I think they use 100% of that daily range, everyday- a small area, but they are all about that area- a god set will be explored in their daily activities-
I don't believe, and this is conjecture based on results, that you can pull them OUT of that daily home range (which changes based on food)
so that a set, make in that range of travel- works no matter what-
so you pull up to a pond, toss a trap down in the water at the spot closet to the road, and put some lure on a stick or Q tip and stick that in the bank over the trap?
that a fair assumption?
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Dec 24, 2008 9:15:28 GMT -6
Basically i am not looking for location on a small scale like you speak of
ie toilets, feedbeds, runs etc.
I am looking for suitable habitat and I feel I can get what i need as long as the habitat is there.
When I trap open water here early season if rats are present I will generally see em swimming around. If they are there it seems to me I get em.
My biggest problem is I dont set enough traps when I should.
In 07 I hit em pretty good opening day and needed to pull them the next cause I had to go to work. Thered be ponds where I'd see six eight swimming around and only set two traps because I had it in my head to hit as many locations as I could when I should have been setting like a madman because of limited amount of time.
Like I said personally with lure I am nuetral and dont think I have ever actually bought a bottle of muskrat lure.
I usually use a fish oil, spiked with shellfish and at present procoon because it is a confidence booster for me.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 24, 2008 9:25:33 GMT -6
When I trap open water here early season if rats are present I will generally see em swimming around. If they are there it seems to me I get em.
yup
procoon does attact rats as well as otter and beaver-
on those type of ponds, if there isn't a natural place to set a trap, kick in 2 pockets and set the traps- the hole will pull every rat around- slick it up, makes it even better
when I tested lure, it was in such setups- the pocket, the toilet, the resting spot, the underlog places, etc- places where, rats go, and go on a pretty much daily basis-
and I never saw any correlation between success and using lure/bait-
white roots, white potato slices, turnips, apples and carrots of course- again, never saw that bump, never saw an increase-
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Post by mattduncan on Dec 24, 2008 12:57:10 GMT -6
one place i think i see a diffrence is float trapping in the spring using rat gland on the floats i seem to get more rats than just a bare float or using carrot or parsnip or apple
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Post by trappnman on Dec 24, 2008 13:27:24 GMT -6
mat- you could well be right- we have never had a spring rat season since I've been trappng so have zero experience in it-
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Dec 24, 2008 15:49:00 GMT -6
on those type of ponds, if there isn't a natural place to set a trap
And thats just it steve I dont spend any time looking for a natural spot unless it blatantly obvious.
Jump out kick in a pocket or maybe some kind of a slide.
on those type of ponds, if there isn't a natural place to set a trap, kick in 2 pockets and set the traps- the hole will pull every rat around- slick it up, makes it even better
Unless you see more than two swimming around lol. I've been guilty of literally seing 8 or 10 and only setting two traps. Should set six maybe eight. Go there twice and gone.
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Post by CoyoteMan50 on Dec 24, 2008 15:49:05 GMT -6
mat- you could well be right- we have never had a spring rat season since I've been trappng so have zero experience in it- same here Steve, other then catching a few in Beaver sets accidental. I guess they had it here one year and that was before my time. thats what the old timers say anyway.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 24, 2008 16:51:17 GMT -6
I took an ounce of sweetflag once and put it in a pint of glycerine and squirted it behind the traps and did real well. Probably would have without it though. I think I might have got them a little faster with the juice.
Joel
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Post by mattduncan on Dec 24, 2008 17:12:54 GMT -6
joel what did your sweetflag smell like i buoght an ounce to fool with and i did'nt think it smelled like much of anything but maybe i got ripped off on it i'm not sure. steve i find when we get our breakup and everything is flooded out in the spring the rats will crawl up on the floats just to get a place to get out of the water and rest but once the water starts to fall and the male rats are getting to crawling up and marking thats when the gland starts to work real good
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