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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 24, 2008 18:07:10 GMT -6
The sweetflag I got was pretty strong, kind of smelled sweet like rat musk.
I was trapping in the spring so it might have faked them out as I was squirting it where they would have deposited musk anyway.
I know guys that shallow water trap rats by just taking a shovel and turning over a shovelfull so there is a landing spot for the rats in the spring it works well.
Joel
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Post by mattduncan on Dec 24, 2008 19:14:12 GMT -6
i could see where that would work good joel i wish i could have stable water long enough to use sets like that it would sure beat hauling floats around lol
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Post by CoonDuke on Dec 24, 2008 19:18:49 GMT -6
If you want good sweetflag I can vouch for the stuff Bob Jameson sells.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2008 8:04:29 GMT -6
Jump out kick in a pocket or maybe some kind of a slide.
yup-
I'll do the same-
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 25, 2008 10:31:14 GMT -6
Here's a scenario where lure will make a difference. And a little story.
I have trapped this channelized stream for 25 years It never freezes, the banks In many places has been rip rapped. And we have to deal with daily water fluctuations. It's a hard place to trap but the rat population Is very high. I can trap about 20 miles of It.
Here Is the stream make up. Rip rapped banks or coarse gravel. Average water depth Is about 3'. It Is very hard to walk around kicking In resting spots because of the bank make up and your standing In 3' of water. Digging pockets can be done but most of the time they cave In.There are no rat runs and In all the years I have trapped this stream I have only found 3 bank dens. Most of them are deep water dens under root systems where you just can't get to. Floats pick up so much debris that they just get dragged under. Bottom edge sets no way. To much debris In the water.I tried It, every trap was choked up so bad no rat could have gotten In It If they would have stayed set. The main rat feed is some type of long thin grass growing under water. It has a very weak root system and Is easily dislodged. This also makes drowning wire set ups just about useless. You have to stake out from the bank and actually bury your trap chain so It won't pick up all this trash and drag your trap out of It's bed.
Natural pull out areas and natural feed beds would blow you away. But there in lies the problem. To much of a good thing. In most cases when you find these areas they will cover 60 or 70 yards. These areas consist of under cut banks with canary grass covering them. Pick up the grass and wow. But the rats are very Inconsistent. One day they will use a feed bed next day they abandon It and will move a few feet away and use another site. Sure If you wanted to use 50 traps set blind along this area you just might catch some rats. But by applying lure you take all the guess work out of It. Sure you can guard all the existing feed piles and take some rats but I want to catch all the rats as fast as I can and move to the next 5 mile run. And I can do that with a small dab of lure either placed at a existing feed pile to keep the rat coming back or by placing It at a new location but It's the lure that draws the rat to where I want it to go.
When i first started trapping this area I had never encountered any situation like this. Sure I was good rat trapper In every aspect of the rat game and yes I didn't use lure or bait. We didn't even have body grips. We just shoved #2 coils up In the bank dens. Same with setting under water runs we just placed foot traps In the channels. We caught rats in these situations but It was pretty hit and miss. But my competition thank god took me under his wing and showed me how to handle It. He played alot of mind games with me at first and poked fun at me every day at the end of the run when he had 60 rats and I only had a few. But I stuck it out and he took pity on me. I remember the first time through, the old guy was way out ahead of me picking all the good spots and I was just staying out of his way and taking my time. The first set I looked at that he had set I just started laughing and told myself that this was going to be a cake walk and this guy had no Idea how to catch rats. His set trap was 3" out of the water just kind of setting there and he had a rat shank stabbed Into the bank above the trap and In some cases a cotton ball dipped In something. well the next day at the end of the run he was waiting for me. He asked how I did I said I caught 10 rats he showed me his 63 rats. He then told me that with my traps set the standard 1/2" to 1" under water that when the water came up all my traps were at least 4" under water and I wasn't going to catch squat. First lesson know what your conditions are before going off half cocked. He then went on to explain that all his sets were at the right depth after the rise In water levels and that his rat shank (bait) and his lure brought In the rat where there really wasn't any tried and true rat set. He made that rat go where he wanted It to go not where that rat wanted to go.
There were situations where rats were using a area where you had no chance of drowning them, he moved those rats to where he could drown them. It's the same with trapping huts.Sure you have the main take out but some times they are In spots where a rat would tangle and not drown. Sure you can make your own slicked up take outs where you want them,but what Is the guarantee that the rat will use them? But with a dab of lure you can at least get it's attention. Now you tell me where lure Is going to hurt your rat catch.
It's like all animals we trap we use lure In just about every situation to attract the animal and guide It Into our trap. Rats are no different.
I miss that old guy I learned a lot from him,he taught me to never get in rut and to think out of the box, It has served me well over the years and made me a better trapper.
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Post by blackhammer on Dec 25, 2008 11:09:28 GMT -6
You will not catch every rat in a pocket.Many times over the years I have seen rats afew feet from a pocket set.They just don't work them.I don't care if I don't get every last rat.If I did maybe lure would help.I have not used lure since I was a kid.I think it's got to catch you a few more rats anyway.My pockets are already baited with fish ,rat flesh might also get you a few more rats.Beav,you got me thinkin about applications were lure might be a good idea.
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 25, 2008 11:12:48 GMT -6
Think out of the box
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2008 12:29:30 GMT -6
trying something, finding it to not be worth doing, and then continue doing so- isn't thinking outside the box-
we will agree to disagree-
pretty much trapped that scenario in the back channels- yes indeed, you do have to set out of water for night depth- BUT- once again, if you know the depth, then you can still find plenty of sets- back channels were my dads bread and butter when not on the refuge- and again, we never used lure
if you have 70 yards of active feedbeds, I'd set a LOT of traps-
there are many ways to pinpoint locations along such areas-
As I said, we will just disagree on this-
and no, rat lure doesn't HURT a set-
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Post by Woodswalker on Dec 25, 2008 16:03:39 GMT -6
I don't agree that rats don't travel. I think they are sociable animals that spend a lot of time in the fall going place to place.
I catch mostly travelling rats - crossing old grassy beaver dams, little streams between small lakes or marshes, or sometimes in places I don't know where they are going or why they are travelling there.
I use almost all blind sets but two years ago I tried an old mink lure of Cronks I had lying about. It was amazing. Just stick in a trap in a convenient spot and get the passing rats. It was great for my low concentration but widely scattered rats.
I intend to get several bottles of reputable lure for next fall for trial.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2008 17:48:23 GMT -6
no body said rats don't travel- in fact, I have said that my lines are set up for travelers-
What I said, was rats have a limited range.
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 25, 2008 18:01:59 GMT -6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- trying something, finding it to not be worth doing, and then continue doing so- isn't thinking outside the box- If It wouldn't have worked then I would have done something different. But The point Is that It did work. If you would read what i wrote you would have seen that the rats abandon one feed bed to start another. So If you would have set the existing ones you would have caught very few rats. The lure was placed at existing beds to keep the rats using them. And don't think I didn't place lots of traps at existing beds with out lure just to find new feed beds crop up In new locations. But since you are the final authority on rat lure being of no use. Then I guess i will just have to stop using It.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2008 18:15:29 GMT -6
beav-use all the lure you want-
the black pipe still sticks in my mind- you argued for weeks on how it did not, no way, no how- work the same as a white pipe- very insistent you were as I recall-
now- if your rats are making huge beds, and abandoning them in one day, then yes, you have very off rats, rat behavior that I have never ever seen-
all I've said is that NEVER in 50 years of trapping rats on every posible type of envirment here I have never, after many years of expermenting- years where I ran 100% lure- years where I ran 100% bait- years where I ran this stream lure, this stream bait, this stream not- and I've NEVER seen any difference-
now- if you need lure, by all means use it-
I don't-
this "final authority " stuff is petty arse bullshite and you know it- Im giving MY opinion- you are giving YOURS- does that make YOU the final authority?
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janv
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 13
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Post by janv on Dec 25, 2008 19:23:09 GMT -6
Never used rat see no need but if I was selling lure I would not try to dicourage it
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 25, 2008 20:15:32 GMT -6
Nope I never said that lure didn't work and I never said that un lured sets didn't work.
You seem to always put words In my posts. Where did I say they were making HUGE beds. I said they made a bed and then abandon it and moved to a new location. I figured the reason for this Is they moved to a new food source and the new resting /feeding place was just more handy to the food source. If It would have been a HUGE bed then I would have set traps at It since It would have taken But trying to out guess the rat was not what I wanted to do. Sure I tried to make new sets according to the food source but with out the help of lure It would have been a guessing game. Do I use lure on every set or In every situation NO I don't.
About the PVC I still believe the white color has better eye appeal. But In most situations it's the bait or the smell that comes out of the pipe that makes It work But I never said that black didn't work.
Happy holidays.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2008 21:31:49 GMT -6
what does selling lure have to do with anything? My comments have never been nor will ever be, based on what I may or may not sell- you want a rat lure? procoon-
sorry- 70 yard active beds are large to me-
I understand- some situations you like using lure-
now understand what I am saying- I've never yet found a situation where I found lure to be of any value for me-
happy holidays right back at you
But I never said that black didn't work.
but you said many times it wouldn't work AS WELL as white pipe, did you not?
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