shock springs

[bobwendt]

I`m sure they start high and end low, at least part of the time. the reason I say that is at one point my softies got terible weak after 15 or so years continuous year `round use use. all the yearling coyotes were foot held, but the old bruisers were essentially 100% 2 middle toes, or even one toe. I was scratching my head untill I drove up to one so fresh the backing weeds weren`t even knocked down. like he was stepping in the trap on one end of the field while I was driving in from the other. there right before my eyes as he bucked and body slammed I watched a solid up on the LEG hold slip with each body slam or lunge down to the last joint on the 2 middle toes. and there it stropped as the jaws set behind that last 2 joints. I`m not convinced that doesn`t happen quite a bit on the 5-10% that are the 1/2 wolf and 1/2 mean woman coyotes that are really really mad, and motivated. no matter what size trap or how strong. some just won`t quit, but have to be made to quit.

[Zagman]

BTW, you guys going with JC's....they are a heavy duty piece of equipment. So much so, that while they can and do create a bedding problem, they are HD enough that I simply POUND them into the bottom of the bed to get them out of the way, causing no ill effects to the shockspring. Until the ground is frozen, then I just accept them and put a little more dry dirt in the bottom of the frozen bed.

Also, if interested, on longer chains, I'd suggest putting them in the middle vs. near the end of the chain. In that spot, with cable stakes, they tend to want to "45 degree" in the bottom of the bed if the cable stake is driven a tad too deep....i.e, they become a fulcrum.

If I was putting on new ones, I'd go in the middle of the chain.

Originally, I put them near the end to prevent tooth breakage....

Hey, it was a phase I was going through! LOL

One other thing, if installing them yourself, you can buy the split washers a bit bigger and weld them up your self. If attaching swivels/j-hooks to the split ring vs. going with chain, the bigger split rings, IMO, give a little looser, better movement without binding.

Zagman

[collins]

For all the guys that say shock springs are a waste. How long have you used them, how many traps do you have with them? It's hard to believe anyone could believe that rubber jawed traps are a benifit but see no benifit in shock springs.

[trappnman]

Zags- I've posted them before, and don't have the time to do it again. Take it on faith what Bob and I are saying or not.

Mark, I read your whole post and understood every word of it. Which is why I just commented on the pictures, not the text.

[bobwendt]

I quit using the cheapo door spring ones when the first coyote stretched them out to 2 feet long. and never saw the need to use j.c`s or any other H.D. types. meaning no unexplained losses, no xcess shoulder or leg injuries. if I`d thought there was a need, I`d use them in a heartbeat. but the old why fix whj=at isn`t broke applys totally. I just don`t see the losses to justify therm.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

The scenario you describe about the coyote pulling his foot out to the last knuckle is one of the reasons why I never stake anything any more.

I like the cat to get a couple of hops out of him before he hits anything to solid, I want that trap to "set" on his foot.

Even with that said I remember a cat I had that a lion hunter told me about. I wasn't going to get back over there for a day or so so I asked him how well it was caught. He says caught good and high. Well when I get over to take it out it is toe caught. I could see where it had worked that trap down it's foot by the smashed hair on it.

Bill Ilchik told me he walked up to a sleeping cat once and when it woke up it jumped right out of the trap and ran off. That was a staked trap if I remember.

Joel

[garman]

May 23, 2008 12:08:43 GMT -6 Zagman said:

One other thing, if installing them yourself, you can buy the split washers a bit bigger and weld them up your self. If attaching swivels/j-hooks to the split ring vs. going with chain, the bigger split rings, IMO, give a little looser, better movement without binding.

Zagman

Do you guys feel ya need to weld them?

[InzanaOutfitters]

I am thinking about taking them off my wolf traps as some wolves spend a lot of time chewing on them. The last wolf chewed his teeth down to the gums and flattened out the springs making them usless any way.

Inzana

[romans117]

"Bill Ilchik told me he walked up to a sleeping cat once and when it woke up it jumped right out of the trap and ran off. That was a staked trap if I remember."

Ditto

[bobwendt]

ditto here too, but think I have it cured somewhat now.

[trappincoyotes39]

Cats don't fight a trap like a coyote poor catches can result in a loss- staked or dragged. A 4 coiled trap and pan tension isn't going to find to many popping out of the jaws of a sterling or other good 4 coiled trap even if caught by a few toes. The reason is self explanatory.

Coyotes can't get movement either even with 18-24" of chain. Bob you won't have that in a good trap! Your softy's invite movement with the rubber pads, as they wear you leave more room of movement of the foot, the rubber creates a spot between the offset jaw and the holding force of the trap, if you want little to no foot movement then your going to use a trap that will cause some swelling of the foot.

Use a 4 coiled #3 or a sterling and examine the feet of caught coyotes, you will see little to no movement on them.

[trappnman]

It's hard to believe anyone could believe that rubber jawed traps are a benifit but see no benifit in shock springs.

apples and oranges.

shock springs aren't being used to reduce foot damage

[bobwendt]

to the contrarty tc, the rubber allows zero movement, I can see you are like many others, have never used asoftie, merely based an opinion on it based on past experience with steel traps. you see, those of us learned in the art of softies know not to cook the rubber to rock to where it makes a "dent" from an animals foot in previous catches. and to keep pads replaced as needed. I can lead a horse to water, but I won`t teach him to swim if he refuses to get in. Believe it or not info like on this thread will be very valuable one day. like it or not.

[Stef]

shock springs aren't being used to reduce foot damage

i don't know why the Canadian trap testers put 2 shock springs ( JC T-Bar shockspring and O'Gorman HD spring ) on their traps

[trappnman]

how long was the chain?

on the otter, we had 24" chain and shocksprings.

on coyotes, I use 8" and none.

[Stef]

I think it was around 18 inches for the staked traps

But I'm not sure there but I believe that all foot traps that could meet the Canadian standard were dragged traps with the same amount of shock springs.

I also think that all staked traps did not meet the standard but I might be wrong.

Stef

[trappincoyotes39]

If your cooking them rock hard then why not just use a laminated trap? The BMP's have proved them to be as good and the #3 double laminated bridger had the best scores for coyotes of any trap tested to date!

You have way less maintenance with the laminated traps versus the pad replacement . The softy issue is waining and the BMP's have helped prove that point, you don't see near the calls as one used to that the padded pacifier was a more humane trap. The science of necropsy have proven otherwise through damage assessments. The future in leg holds is wide jaws, good swiveling, shock springs these are the things that will see the future of the leg hold over the padded traps. You look at the new traps to hit the market in the last 10 years, more are wider jaws and less in the makeup of hot new padded jaw traps.

[bobwendt]

b.s. with the 4 coiling the feet are dead, stone cold dead, will fall off and rot if the animal is released. and can look perfect when the trap is taken off. unless you want to go to 6 hr cks. your call, but don`t try to chit me on medical stuff.

[trappnman]

one thing I always wonder- why are al the dogs that are caught, often a couple of times in 4 coiled traps, always survive like nothing happened, for years with no outward, noticible effects?

[Stef]

Here's an old clip of a fox pumping a T-Bar shockspring... It ain't bad after all.
Chain is about 14"-16" total on my small traps.

You can't say that it's bad... look