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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 11, 2007 22:10:11 GMT -6
I have seen lots of cows petrify as well.
Doesn't mean that they aren't coyote magnets though.
Make some sets back aways and sharpen your knife.
Joel
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Post by rk660 on Sept 12, 2007 2:11:59 GMT -6
I have found, that sometimes a road, fenceline, crop change about a 100 yards to a 1/4 mile off a major drainage with heavy timber, the type of water system you would think would be a territorial boundry or a dispersal route, produces better than setting the edge of the timber many times. I wonder if many times coyotes prefer traveling parallel to a major drainage a few 100 yards away from it more so than right next to it. The edge seems to get better when snow gets deeper, probibly sending them right into the cover more so.
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Post by Zagman on Sept 12, 2007 3:34:17 GMT -6
If you are merely talking general location picking and putting odds in your favor with multiple travel routes and/or blockages, well then YES, I do that.....
But I dont think of it in terms of fringe or core or what have you....I entered this discussion highlighting what a recent writer mentioned regarding simply finding areas where 3 family groups meet.......which I believe you said could be ascertained by reading studies if you dont have collaring info......
Regarding denning locations, you have to understand that while this is not God's Country, it's close..........we are blessed with unlimited water supplies, cover, rock ledges and coyote food......pretty easy for a coyote bitch to pick just about ANY spot and be successful.
MZ
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Post by romans117 on Sept 12, 2007 4:22:23 GMT -6
ok the off yellow is what i feel would be the best travel ways,yellow arrows would be the routes i would be looking at for the most movement.....blue is where i would be looking to set depending on access...and the red would be a no brainer depending on access...this is what i see when i look at your pic....is it the boundaries of the coyotes range...i doubt it but i would still be getting them because of the travel ways..... SWEET
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Post by bubcat on Sept 12, 2007 5:18:54 GMT -6
But I dont think of it in terms of fringe or core or what have you....I entered this discussion highlighting what a recent writer mentioned regarding simply finding areas where 3 family groups meet.......which I believe you said could be ascertained by reading studies if you dont have collaring info......
With that, what's it all mean?
There hasn't been any sort of dramatic evidence that there is a magic spot "everywhere" where 3 families of coyotes will automaticaly converge or cross paths that I can see....and could be it's "happened" once or twice, but a "common" phenomona?
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Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 12, 2007 5:19:51 GMT -6
well bubcat i didnt know it was a sheer drop off....thought it was just a clearing on the rige side.....travel routes can be learned by a trapper with a to po map...all the big valleys and dips a k9 will run....fence rows going to point A to point B all k9s will run....why because they can be consealed when they travel....and probually find a food source also....
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Post by trappngreys on Sept 12, 2007 5:53:18 GMT -6
I tend to agree with T-man here.
I don't understand the big fuss, I thought we as trappers knew how, when, and where to pick the locations. It's called scouting and reading sign. No I don't if there are several family groups cornering but It's not hard to figure out the location where every coyote in the area will travel threw. This is the same no matter where you trap.
As far as catching the Alpha male I say about 90% of the I catch him the 1st week if not sooner. No I can't prove that, but he's usually the biggest one of the bunch I will take out of that area.
I also set with small backings but I am setting mainly flatsets not dirt holes. I used to see where another coyote would pee on the nearest object closest to the caught one in the trap but not any more since I started putting a trap there. Not saying you can't catch them on big backings and yes I will set up a bank with a dirt hole in it too.
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Post by ohiyotee on Sept 12, 2007 5:58:15 GMT -6
That's way discussing it in length as it applies to trapping is a non point, and in my opinion it just doesn't matter. A true high roller can perform well in any new situation and does not have to rely on home field advantage to make a good showing. Steve when you went to Wyoming did you know the home ranges of the coyotes you caught? So what did you rely on to catch them. And when you where looking for locations did you consider if they where multiple teritory areas? I'm guessing no and no you went trapping , I really don't see how knowing a families range would effectivly change what i am doing as far trapping them goes.
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Post by SteveCraig on Sept 12, 2007 5:58:18 GMT -6
Here is another scenerio for you to think about.
You have a north south major drainage system. A fairly large town/city sitson the eastern side of this river/creek. You must get permission to trap from the land owners. Where would you concentrate your permissions? The north side of town? The east side? the south side? The west side?
You only get to choose ONE area.
To take the most coyotes, which side do you pick. I have this type situation all the time, and I know what works. Been using this to my advantage for years. Just want to see what you think. Remember........you only get ONE area to choose trap and snare and why would you pick it?
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Post by lumberjack on Sept 12, 2007 6:03:45 GMT -6
The west side to take advantage of the predominate wind?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2007 6:06:44 GMT -6
bubcat- results come from somewhere.
Can't a thinking man, make a logical deduction on WHY multiple groups?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2007 6:10:54 GMT -6
whether you think of something as this or think of it as that- doesn't change what is.
no one is looking for precise numbers of family groups- but does it take a rocket scientist to understand what CAUSES multiple groups to frequent an area?
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Post by shagnasty on Sept 12, 2007 6:13:26 GMT -6
heard red fox migrate to the north west. no clue on coyotes. so would the south side be the best?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2007 6:46:25 GMT -6
Zags- It wasn't me that mentioned a specific number of family groups, and certainly it wasn't me that mentioned and any specific number of family groups determined by collaring. Just to clear that up.
But what I did say- is that collaring showed me that coyotes caught at one certain location, were dispersed far from that location on a regular basis. And because of the numbers caught there, it would seem logical that there were more than one group.
And then because I tlike thinking aobut coyotes, it seems logical that if a couple areas showed this tendancy, that its easy enough to see what those areas have in common, and try to find areas that mirror them.
And for me, and I guess I'm alone here, I'll choose, given the choice, those type of locations.
And a couple of these "new" choices, produced the same results as the "proven" locations.
Can we say a pattern can be found? Cause I sure can.
As far as collaring and other research- its out there, easily accessed, and available to all. If studying research teaches you nothing, then you would be correct in ignoring it, and just keep doing what you are doing.
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Post by Drew on Sept 12, 2007 6:51:39 GMT -6
I haven't read the book, but have talked to the author and seen his demo's several times...also I grew up in the area he trapped for years.
I don't know if the talk of core, fringes and overlaps refers to the layout here in michigan?
Think of flat farmland cut up by (small property owners) and then large farm tracts seperated by lanes, fencerows and so on....most of the farms have woodlots or parcels of woods then are surrounded by fields.
It's easier to visualize with a plat book or map of the area.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2007 6:54:55 GMT -6
Seems to me that the essence of what I've been saying in this thread, was experience in your area or similar areas. And taking that experience, and making conclusions from it.
----------------------------------------- Home ranges have nothing to do with it.
I don't care if the range is 50 feet or 100 miles.
But what I do care about, is making sets where I have a chance of multiple animals- ands in areas where ranges overlap- you have that chance.
I'll reiterate- I never said "3 multiple groups"- I said MULTIPLE groups- meaning more than ONE.
I'm rather shocked, that the coyote trappers here, can make no conclusions as to WHAT type of localities, will give you that.
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Post by ohiyotee on Sept 12, 2007 7:14:13 GMT -6
So what you are telling me is you can go to an area that you have never been to and piont out spots where there are multiple teritories ? I can piont out spots that are going to produce better than others with out worring about who belongs to who . And if i would think about that, the location would be the same so tell me why bother. It is already ingrained in my head as any canine trapper would know where the best spots are. In other words aren't we already looking for those types of locations with out a though as to family groups over laping?
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 12, 2007 7:18:58 GMT -6
this is a discussion forum. I do not want posts such as this. This discussion is enttertaining to me- if it is not to you, don't read it and for heavens sakes don't post on it.
it adds nothing to the discussion. If you have a discussion point than make it, but make your editorial comments in off topics please.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2007 7:34:17 GMT -6
Yes, I am telling you that any cooyte trapper that thinks about it, should be able to point out areas that will have multiple groups using it.
as far as being such a leap in thought processes-
1) you have multiple groups using an area
2) lets see...maybe not home range?
3) multiple implies more than 1- so multiple groups not in home range?
4) so..... overlapping?
seems logical to me
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 12, 2007 7:36:34 GMT -6
okee dokee, I`m out per your wishes, but I thought my point was dead on accurate to the direction of this whole thread. not off topic at all. directly related and to the point.
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