|
Post by garman on Sept 10, 2007 17:31:26 GMT -6
Some of the things spoken here tend to go against some of the more experienced trappers experiences, which makes me skeptical, not necessarily a disbeliever but skeptical. Well whatever works for him.
|
|
|
Post by k9 on Sept 10, 2007 22:33:26 GMT -6
I never could figure out how these guys know where the edge or fringe of a coyotes territory is, without spending about a week riding around on him.
I like a high backing when available, and many of my sets go right into the weedline along a feild, to avoid being hit by the chisel plow or anhydrous knife. Just when you think you got these farmers figured out, they get a wild hair and blacken a field on you.
|
|
|
Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 10, 2007 22:43:23 GMT -6
I think that people have different styles, and so do coyotes.
Confidence is a really weird thing, almost surreal in a sense, but I know it works.
Seems the older I get the more that I notice it.
I have sat down to call coyotes a heck of a lot of times and had no confidence, other times I just know one is coming.
Probably 90+% of the time I might as well get up and go back to the truck when I'm not feeling it, and vice versa.
I have no doubt that some of you guys catch plenty against high backing, I've caught to many myself by accident to doubt it but my confidence level is greater doing it my way.
Same with a buried cat set, at one time I had to cover them, the first uncovered ones were hard to walk away from, now more often than not the reverse is true.
Can't put my finger on the confidence thing but I know that it's there.
Joel
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 11, 2007 6:29:43 GMT -6
I never could figure out how these guys know where the edge or fringe of a coyotes territory is
collaring
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 11, 2007 7:16:19 GMT -6
no one collars, not traditional field trappers at least and for sure not the one telling all these theorys. even your collaring was so small a sample to not be scientifically significant. it would take hundreds if not thousands to know realistic figures.
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Sept 11, 2007 7:42:50 GMT -6
A buddy gave me Mark June's new coyote book to read.....
He says to simply find where two or three family groups' territories overlap and set there.....
Umm........ok?
I guess it's just that simple..............
Zagman
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 11, 2007 7:43:48 GMT -6
ahh, the name finally appears........
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 11, 2007 7:50:31 GMT -6
well yes- it is indeed that simple.
and while most coyote trappers don't have access to collaring data on their own lines, they do have access to the studies. And when all studies say the same thing- well, duh.
And ALL coyote trappers that trap more than a couple of years on the same line- certainly should be able to tell if a location is a home aea that contains a family group each year, or a overlapping neutral area that contains many.
And once those overlapping areas are found, you can for sure figure out what those areas have in common, and look for duplicated areas.
|
|
|
Post by ohiyotee on Sept 11, 2007 7:57:45 GMT -6
Fringe , core , i don't give a rats a who , what or where he is 99% of the time. All i need to know is where he is going to be that is convenient for me. I am a student of trapping so why should i care where the fringe or core is, all i really need to know is where i can efficiently take him.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 11, 2007 8:23:41 GMT -6
the advantage of either delibrately trying to set or accidently setting areas that give you access to more coyotes, is obvious- more coyotes at that given location.
Its why 1 location gives you a couple coyotes, and others give you higher numbers.
For you run and gunners, its even more important.
If you are a student of trapping, that includes being a student of the animal- and any knowledge, adds to your overall education.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 11, 2007 9:14:09 GMT -6
going back to tha ban-able type postings, t man, you and westerners don`t grasp that is there an all weather heavy sodded high ground or graveled all weather access lane to the trap site", is more important than is it the best location. in the east, due to weather extremes, i.e. heavy heavy nonstop monsoon rain and impassable mud. I like getting technical and reading b.s. by hobbyists as much as the next guy, but push come to shove, in trapping a size 40 coat beats a size 10 hat any day. it`s all about miles and hours and work. no brain surgery, no fringe vs core hokus pokus. a dead cow means more than all that .
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Sept 11, 2007 9:24:00 GMT -6
Steve, to me its not that simple.
Every year, around here, den locations and therefore family locations change. Especially if I do my job and whipe out big momma the fall before..........
A consistant pattern around here with farmers is that they think the coyote population ebbs and flows drastically annually, since one year they hear coyotes nightly and the next they hear nothing....
They cant comprehend that last summer they had a den and family group all summer behind the barn, and this year they are on the other side of the mountain.......they could hear them plainly one summer, and the next year, different family on the next farm was not discernable.
So, in other words, I dont see how one could count on a year-to- year, across the board, view of one's area and a definitive outlook of where three particular family groups meet.....
Generalities, yes, but specific bulleye's?
In other words, I cant pull into farmer Brown's year after year and lick my lips knowing that three family groups of coyotes intersect in his back 44 acre corn lot.
Calf dumps, hog dumps, major blockages, etc can give me confidence that I will run into multiples, but I certainly cannot think of a plain vanilla farm that I am certain that several territories overlap there........and I am going on 20 years on several of these farms.
Zagman
|
|
|
Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 11, 2007 9:33:43 GMT -6
why wouldn't I grasp that bob? 2 weeks of rain provides the same access problems as 4. and don't tell me it doesn't.
TC is right- look at the monthly rainfall totals and then tell me its all that different. So you have a few bad years- so what?
But you are right- I'm tired of this type of post because it leads to the east vs west thing all over again- and when CRU was started- on one of the first posts- I vowed that the east vs west thing was not going to divide this forum. Ever notice why we have so many western guys and eastern guys here? thats why.
So- please give me the respect to let the west east vs thing lie. Mention it in passing if you must, then move on.
of course access is a concern- but also in the east- you have roads every mile or two- so that access to LOCATIONS isn't really a problem. And in most places, coyote competition is nil- so why not look for the best locations.
You can't always have them- but doesn't it pay to look fro them, and to choose them, given an either or choice?
Given a choice of farms- why not take the one that has the "features" that seem to be the common factor i nmy known overlapping locations?
people talk of shock springs and 4 coils and reamke tools as giving them a coyote or 2 more a year...wouldn't better locations, do that even more?
|
|
|
Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 11, 2007 9:49:51 GMT -6
The east west thing doesn't bother me Steve and I'm West of about everybody but 3-4 guys on here. lol!!
It's interesting to hear about the East, hope to visit someday.
Joel
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 11, 2007 10:10:57 GMT -6
access, it is a huge problem. and 4 weeks of rain is twice the trouble as 2 weeks. the difference in east /west is in the animals too. as zag and others have stated, in the east they are pack units, like wolves, way into winter. in the west they just run helter skelter every coyote for himself, maybe a litter mate or a mate, but not 6-8 at a time hunting grown deer. saying the "w" word is a no no too, but that`s what they are, or at least closer to that than a pipsqueek chicken hearted yellow bellied coyote chasing road runners around. an az coyote is in the teens(lbs.) weight wise. kind of like thinking I could play ball with sgaq. uh uh. you can`t avoide east/west differences and even have a ball game that is serious.
|
|
|
Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 11, 2007 12:01:50 GMT -6
i have never went and looked for dens to find where they are...i just know where i will catch them....travel ways,feeding areas...and so on...i dont worry about core areas or all the added stuff to razzle your mind....i look at the way the crop rows are run from year to year and that in itself has a big travel change for my yotes from year to year.....i try to look at what i have on hand instead of looking and saying to myself..."i think they will run here and are spending more time in this area..... i set enough close by farms that if there will be 2-3 packs in this area i will have sets in all of those pack running areas....
|
|
|
Post by ohiyotee on Sept 11, 2007 13:27:00 GMT -6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- exactly
|
|
|
Post by ohiyotee on Sept 11, 2007 13:39:56 GMT -6
. exactly what i do, you can look and find the best locations and not even give one though to a coyotes home range, it doesn't matter at all. For the most part i can't control where a coyote makes its home(short of dozing up a pile of trees and brush), so unless i was denning why should i care where the "home range " is? I'm looking for travel locations that bring the animals that i want close to where i am traveling. i use the line of thinking that in the animals nightly travels he will come to or acrossed a road or a lane or where ever o can get to with out a lot of effort. Maybe this is to simple of a concept , maybe its down right sloppy, maybe I'm passing up a lot of fur?
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 11, 2007 14:35:01 GMT -6
well, we will agree to disagree.
but I don't think it has anything to do with dens, or how many coyotes raised on each farm. In fact, thats exactly opposite my point.
ohiyote- are your good travel locations on a home range?
Zagman- if a farm is a plain vanilla farm, then its doubtful its the type of location I am looking for. Some or all of the things you mention, are exactly what I'm looking for- and after 20 years, your take should tell you if its consistently a overlap area, or a defended home range area.
I have 4-5 locations, that give me 40-50% of my coyotes. THOSE are the type of locations I look for- but of course do not always have- but becasue they are rare, does that mean I stop looking for them?
All locales btw have several key points in common-
|
|
|
Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 11, 2007 15:01:38 GMT -6
well my main yote farm that consistentantly produces for me is right on top of a ridge in a low spot where a draw runs down the valley....so i feel any animals traveling through the area will travel the low spot in the ridge....other spots i catch yotes are fence rows that run for a mile or so ridge to ridge....so if the yotes are there they will be by my sets in these spots....i mainly look for travel ways when setting early season...then later say december i look for feeding areas....this might be the wrong way to look at it and i might not be catching fur to my potiental....
now dont get me wrong if there are intrest points and feed places i set those as well...i will try to cover all the "hot spots" when i set...i just dont get tied up on the boundaries and such....in all reality im probually setting more boundaries than i know or i understand...setting the creek ditches and such are for sure fox boundaries and probually yote boundaries....all i know is when i see yote sign i catch yotes...do i catch them all dont know...
|
|