Urine continued...

[CoonDuke]

I have collected winter fox urine fed only muskrats in the past. I keep all of the bladder urine from my foxes. I have smelled urine collected by reputable producers. I have a pretty good grasp on what good urine is supposed to smell like.

My question is...

I have smelled a lot of what I considered bad urine. Some of it didn't smell like fox urine at all. Some had an odd kinda metallic odor or something.

Everybody talks about fox urine that smells like a septic tank. I guess I really don't know what a septic tank smells like because I was never around one when it was being pumped...LOL.

I did however smell urine that had the odor of a barnyard. Like rotten horse or cow manure. Is that what everyone calls "septic tank" urine??

[bobwendt]

rotton smell. it`s summer urine, not from food. you can feed bad food ( dogfeed) and still get a decent pee in the winter. you can feed pure meat and be clean as can be in the summer and it still goes sewer on you. I`ve maintained all along no one can collect decent pee in the summer, like mid march to nov 1st without it goes bad . I think the pee ph or chemical composition actually changes , thus changing the bacterial flora in warm weather. you can hose down the troughs daily, strain all you want and it still goes south on you in the summer. anyone not believe it, just try to collect in the summer and then go sniff the pee in 30 days- sewer! you can freeze it daily and then it still goes bad when you take it out of the freezer in say jan. . some add na benzoate to the summer ranch pellet fed pee. that`s the extremely weak see thru yellow stuff a major major dealer peddles. he thinks it`s great pee as he has never learned the difference or had the trapping experience to know. he is a peddler, a store keeper, not a trapper. that doesn`t make him a crook, just ignorant on pee and passing the ignorance on to anyone that buys it, that`s the buyers bad. but trappers are cheapskates and if pee is 10 cents cheaper they buy the cheap. the best pee is as you collect duke, the dark `rat fed winter collected. it turns ammonia, but not rotton, and needs no na benzoate to keep it that way. and color does make a huge difference in guaging quality. if it is yellow it is cerial fed ( weak) or watered like niagra falls ( even weaker). the amazing thing is you can buy the best pee available in the world for less than the cost of one cheap trap/gallon over what the cost of the worst stuff avalable is . go figure. blood and food and grain particles ( dog food) can rot pee, but it`s more a summer vs winter collection than a feed thing. or maybe I should say equall as I never have senn "good" dog food fed pee, winter or summer. I`ve had fox ( 120 head) here all summer and we just let the pee run on the ground now, not worth saving, no matter how clean, no matter what fed, no matter how much na-benzoate we dump in, won`t work. one last fwiw, there are no coyote farms, none.

[markymark]

I was reading a TPC from the early 80's there was an article about urine. I can't think of the writter off the top of my head. He's the man that wrote the book about fox ranching, Gary??

Anyway he goes on to say that urine is urine grain fed to meat fed all the same. Sounds like Hal has kept that small read. I was amazed at the smell that Wendt's urine has. While at Phils I had a chance to smell a few of those bottles he posted a few days ago. There's a big difference in the mellow yollow compared to the dark coffee Piss.

In closing if I had a fur farm with fox your dam right I would push grain fed urine. It must be a full time job just getting enough meat to feed fox on a large scale. So consider your blessings when good piss is just a phone call away today. With a price that has been stable for years and people complain about the price of a gallon of gas.

[tonymalone]

Bob do ya think beaver fed urine, is equal to muskrat?

[bobwendt]

tony, yes, I do, but but but, you can`t produce it on a commercial level. the reason being you feed beaver ( and you need to gut completely as they are blood drippers) more than 2 days in a row and they just flat quit eating and get the black squirts. you keep them on beaver a week and they they lose weight and hang on barely, just nibbling, and peeing maybe a few drops a day. so they need the rats. we try to feed beaver every 4th day, just to use them up. we are like everywhere else, lots of beaver and no rats. anymore what puts me out of the pee biz is failure to get enough rats. i beg for them , buy them ,anything to get them, but at $18 a gallon for pee wholesale and them eating a rat a day/head, I can`t compete with the human meat market. we pay 20 cents a rat delivered, 1/2 that picked up. this is just a skinned rat, guts and all, no handling except don`t let it rot TOO BAD. even then I can`t drive anywhere unless large quantities. if we could get more $/galon then we could produce more, i.e. pay more for rats. I`m raising to $20 in 55 gallon drums, effective today. just talking about it reminded me how hard it is to get 100 rats a day, 3,000 a month, 12-15,000 a winter. add in feeding 48 coyotes at 3 rats a day each and there is 20,000 more rats. it can`t be done. that is why I know a lot of pee for sale isn`t even pee. just like I know a 350 lb man isn`t a long liner. some things are just fact.

[CoonDuke]

I have smelled a lot of "so called" Bobcat urine with that rotten manure odor as well.

[bobwendt]

you can`t buy hardly any good cat pee. the dealers buy it all from a fur farm in montana, pellet fed and summer collected. if you don`t know a hobby collector that will part with some, or you collect your own, you are screwed. there are no commercial cat pee collectors, none, anywhere at least none winter and meat feeding only. if you find someone with the real deal, buy it all, a lifetime supply worth, as it`s scarce as hens teeth and cheap at 100 dollars a gallon. I personally only know of one guy with some good cat pee now, turtle in ks. maybe there are others also feeding and collecting right, but I bet not 100 gallons worth over the whole continent. serious.

[bobwendt]

p.s. I`ve actually seen bobcat pee at conventions that said " fox", crossed out, and bobcat written over it, lol, and was all rot gut summer pellet chit. trappers just buying the heck out of it.

[thorsmightyhammer]

How much pee can you get from a couple cats in the winter bob.

I know a guy that has had a couple for a good while.

Was think I should get him to collect the pee. I could supply him with the meat.

What months do you consider winter fed.

[bobwendt]

not much. I kept about 30 cats one time and they didn`t pee but about a 1/2 gallon each a month, at the most. for cats I`d say their natural prey rabbits , whole, would be best feed. and likely whole rats just as good. birds are just too much mess and domestic fowl is a nasty green pee that sours. when I saw the trouble and small volume they produced I knew right there 99.9999% of cat pee for sale by dealers wasn`t even cat pee. one thing I can advise and anyone can do, in any state. cage up a bunch of domestic housecats. I`m convinced the pee is just as good as bobcat pee, as far as attractiveness to bobcats, in fact likely even better. meat feed, winter etc etc.. here nov ist to mid march, varies some. where you live probably 2 weeks longer on each end. you`ll know when the pee gets different, but it takes 10 days or so to turn funky. at the beginning and end I keep it in 5 gallon buckets so if it goes south on me from starting too early or collecting too late,that the last collections don`t rot a whole 55 gallon drum and I lose a grand. each year is a little different pending weather.

[bobwendt]

ps, there are some other ethical and knowledgable collectors ,like wheelie, that could chime in some. or bill kasten could talk for himself and his buddy carmon. I`m feeling like the lone ranger here boys.

[livefreeordie]

I know Rod Zullinger used to keep a few Bobcats for pee, never heard of him selling any though.

[coyotewhisperer]

Myself and a good friend of mine both kept cats for pee last year during season. I had one and He had 7 or so. I fed my cat whole rabbits/deer meat/coon and muskrats. He gained some weight and peed just a little less than the coyotes I had penned up.

I wonder why your cats didn't produce much pee bob. Phil and I both agreed they peed just barely less than a coyote. That cat i had could really put away some groceries.

Jeff

[bobwendt]

I duuno. they weren`t spilling water were they? I did keep all kittens and females as I figured they would cause less troubles than the big toms. some of them were regular pistols, so I lights out for them .

[markymark]

20 a gallon is a steal from what it must take to get all that food. I'd go 22 with a 3 dollar increase in 6 months. Someone has to be the least exspensive and someone has to be the most exspensive.

Little story, today I was in a high end gunshop average sticker price to walk out the door is about 7 grand. It's a 3 hour ride there all to look at a some what odd Parker. While mic'ing the barrels I overheard a another patron say "Nothing is cheap in here" the owner then says "If you want something cheap then head down the road to So&So gunshop" Your paying for a gun that a man took pride in his work and many hours. I then told him the story about Bob's P operation and what he has to deal with. Nile then said Hell that should work out to about 100 bucks a gallon. I had to laugh.

[bobwendt]

you are right, but the average trapper doesn`t shoot parkers, he has a duct taped oldie. my urine collection biz is a by product of the live biz. if I quit either one, the live biz or the urine biz, then I quit both, as neither will generate enough income to carry itself alone. if others can do it, more power to them, it`s not worth my time ,if either one fails ,to coninue the other. plus, I don`t need any money at all any more. none! I just do this because it`s what I do, it`s what I`ve always done, it`s me. same with trapping. that`s why the demise and ruination of the nta is such a serious matter to me. guys make light of it, my constant comment on what has happened to the nta, like right now, but they just don`t live and breathe it like I do maybe. if trapping is made illegal, well than I`m not me anymore am I.

[ColdSteel]

All this urine talk is getting confusing.I just got a gallon of pee from Bill Kasten at the VA convention in July.If I keep this urine all summer and wait till January to use it will it be any good?I do understand good from bad I got some a few years ago and had a lot of rolling at my set took me a few times to figure out the problem.I have trapped with urine and without and caught fox both ways so any more urine problem for me and I know the answer

[bobwendt]

it will be good. good pee doersn`t rot or degrade, if anything it just gets better as it ages. in fact if I could use all 50 year old pee I would.

[ColdSteel]

Well that sounds good Bob.All I need now is it to cool off some I can start live marketing now but man 95 degree days I had just soon wait.

[bobm]

markymark said:

I was reading a TPC from the early 80's there was an article about urine. I can't think of the writter off the top of my head. He's the man that wrote the book about fox ranching, Gary??

Gary Glass