break-away cam locks?/BADS

[Rod17]

Anyone have experience with the High Desert break-away cam-locks?

I have heard that Utah has implemented a BAD requirement on snares, though I have not seen the newest proclamation. I would like to make some of my own snares this year and their are lots of choices for BADs.

Let's hear about your experience with break-away cam locks, Hopkins j-hooks, release ferrules, or any other BADs. Where I snare, I have a mix of mule deer, moose and elk. The latter 2 usually just knock snares down, so the main concern is releasing deer.

Thanks


Randy

[trappincoyotes39]

I use Dirk miller break aways on a regular cam, that way you can reuse the lock time and again until it hits a worn out point and won't hold the cable tightly. Some you have to replace pins or hoods of the locks etc. I like the s hook bads and the miller ones release deer and such nicley and still hold a major majority of coyotes. At 22.00 per 100 they are the best deal, next would be the sullivan s hook bads as performance and cost again play a roll in alot of snares being set.

I file teeth in all my cam's and don't set a coyote snare without a bad or a choke tension device. Switching over to all "stinger type" I get them from Grawes at a lower cost and they perform really well. I still have some of the coil spring type and once there all used then I'm done with them as the coni type perform much better on winter caught coyotes in my opinion, summer time either will work due to many factors but just soon have one system for snaring.

The only advantage I see to the high desert reg cams is no need to paint them up. But to have a bad and break away lock in my opinion is not needed for deer or livestock. I run 15ft total on trail snares and that gives all ungulates plenty to just leave my parts behind.

Release ferrals don't like them as your looking for all your hardware and you loose some of it and waste time.

[Rod17]

TC38: Good info.

You said that they "...hold the majority of coyotes", so I assume that you have had some coyotes pull the BAD apart? I know nothing in this world is 100% but give us some more info about losing coyotes. Was this a non-entanglement situation, what length of cable, etc?.. anything that may help us understand how to use BADs to their maximum effectiveness.

What there a catch circle, a theft problem, other possibilities?

Do you think mosts BADs are over-rated in thier break-away poundage or under-rated? Personally, I want a BAD to release every deer or cow.

How do sheep figure into the BAD equation? do they fight snares enough to open a 90-100 lb-rated BAD.


thanks

Randy

[JWarren]

shocklung said:

Do you think mosts BADs are over-rated in thier break-away poundage or under-rated? Personally, I want a BAD to release every deer or cow.

How do sheep figure into the BAD equation? do they fight snares enough to open a 90-100 lb-rated BAD.


thanks

Randy

nobody really nows much about poundage rating and suitability for certain applications because everyone tests the poundage different. most guys just use a super heavy bad thats advertised withing the legal limit and call it good. you'll probably hold sheep no problem in a coyote snare. if you want to realease every deer and cow watch those 4-500 lb loop pull devices on the market advertised as five times less

[Danny Clifton]

Your really cutting a fine edge trying to release deer and hold coyotes. Most of the deer I've caught were fawns. Full grown deer knock the loop down or get caught by a foot. I just accepted that one or two times I year I have to wrestle a deer down and release it. A B.A.D. should release on a leg caught full grown deer. For a B.A.D. I use the ferrule John Grahm sells. It's low profile and reliable. If you snare a deer on a fence crawl under I doubt many will release. The wire acts likes a shock absorber.

[Rod17]

Danny, thanks for the info.

For most of us in the west, by Nov/Dec/Jan the deer are "adult size" -- so I hope that BADs can be used effectively to hold a coyote and release an adult mule deer (even a yearling at that). I would also think that even an adult whitetail could exhert more force (due to mass and and longer legs) than a coyote and snap a BAD? any opinions on that assumption?

However, the fact that you have had the Amberg ferrules release is useful. Did you make the snares yourself - using the Amberg swagger ?

thanks

Randy

[S. LULA]

I like the s hooks after a catch all ya got to replace is the cable & ferrules . as far as deer go foot caught on a solid anchor usually pop . on go unders I haven't seen a breakaway set up do much good. Foot caught antelope are another that I have had yet see a bad work always have to wrestle them down .But those lope were hooked up to a kill pole .I use the 280# s hooks. I don't really want to go much lighter .

[musher]

Danny: How do you wrestle a deer down? It's been my experience that a deer on a long wire is really dangerous.

Are there tricks to releasing a deer?

[trapperdog]

Shocklung,I've used the breakaway cam lok,you really need to use a BAD S hook with them also.It is pretty much a redundant sustem,by that I mean you have two possible breakway points for the snare.I did have one shear on a leg caught deer.
If you like cam loks I'd stick to using a S hook BAD.For your BAD to work properly your snare needs to be secured solidly,so hooking a snare to the fence wire defeats that.The snare should be either staked or secured to the fence post.

[Danny Clifton]

Yes I build my own snares. I use the swager Grahm sells for his ferrules. I don't use a long snare most of the time. When I hang a loop its in a entanglement spot. I have some 10 foot lengths of 3/32 cable with a loop on each end I use at times as an extension. Never had a deer that wasn't wrapped up pretty good tho. Your right about deer kicking hard. Leaves a bruise. Only "trick" I use is the cable cutter in my pickup so I can cut the loop off the animals neck. BTW trying to throw one like you do a calf don't work to good. If you have help grab it by the ears. One in each hand. If alone pin down its neck with your knee like you would a hog.

[coyotewhisperer]

What kind of locks are you using danny? I have yet to see a live neck snared deer . I have been told one of my snares with a sullivan BAD did hold a WY mule deer by the leg alive. If they want to tell the story they can. A snared deer alive in my part of the country would be killed and eaten in a few hours due to coyotes. Basically what I'm getting at is if you snare a deer by the neck or snout BAD or deer stop or not in my part of the country it's dead before you can count to ten. This is where you need to use common sense if your among alot of deer.

Jeff

[Rod17]

Has anyone had a BAD that failed to hold a coyote? If so, give us some details: what kind of BAD, cable length, lock, entanglement/non-entanglement..etc

The fence snaring issue is a no-brainer - if the attachment point is flexible, no BAD can be expected to perform as advertised.

Randy

[17HMR]

Neve have lost one, but had a snare shop, J type, bad open up more than I like to see 1 time, it was as big of yote as there is around here, and no entanglement, but still DOA. 17' of cable

[Bristleback]

I run a chained cam, Marty's BAD and Stinger, and totally delighted with the results, all available from the Boss here. Can't stress enough the need for a solid anchor! In the last 2 years all but one deer has blown the BAD......the one that didn't I have no clue as to why.......Magnum doe, relatively flat ground, lighter cover?

Knock on wood, all coyotes have been there waiting for me. One alive and posted on another thread, old dog just not a fighter? Had a few taking their last few breathes, but still very happy with the set up.

Steve, do you have files in stock?
Danny call me.

[JWarren]

coyotewhisperer said:

Basically what I'm getting at is if you snare a deer by the neck or snout BAD or deer stop or not in my part of the country it's dead before you can count to ten. This is where you need to use common sense if your among alot of deer.

Jeff

I agree, I wonder if baddog is still pushing his S-hook as capable of releasing neck caught deer while holding yotes

[Bristleback]

JW, just curious, it sounds like you are questioning Marty's BAD, in holding coyotes and releasing deer? Or am I reading this wrong.

I've run his BAD, an Elite 265 I believe.....I have killed one deer, while I've caught several.......easily 12-15 in the last 2 seasons, and the BAD has worked as prescribed. All but a very few coyotes have been DOA!

[Rod17]

Dwaine...great feedback. Are you running 1x19 cable or 7x7? (i.e why the chained cam with stingers?)

Randy

[Bristleback]

Hey Dr. Yes, I run mostly 1x19 in 1/16........1x19 is "slicker-more smooth" than 7x7. In fact I just walked in from "chaining" another 100 camlocks. By chaining this greatly reduces any chance for the cable to "slip" back through the cam lock....it really tends to cinch in place.

In wide open spaces, no entanglement, I feel this is of utmost importance, as there you are really depending upon the coyotes momentum against the snare-extension to tighten the snare ......you sure don't want this to "slip" or give any cable back......The Stinger, exerts pressure opposite the anchored end....once it's been engaged, meaning the coyote has exerted enough momentum to begin to compress the Stinger........The
Stingers linear design, is exerting pressure away from the anchored end of the snare. By it's linear design, it's energy is far more efficient. Compare the Stinger to the coiled spring, mini door spring types, a certain improvement vs no spring, but most are all contorted, bananna shaped, L shaped......meaning the energy isn't as efficient.....better than nothing. As to the Amberg, I can't really comment as I haven't used many.

If you are new to using Stingers, CAUTION, be very careful when you cut the cable between the lock, Stinger and the stop, the end of the snare, there can be considerable pressure on the stop and can become a missle when you cut the cable.

Anyone know who "invented" the "chaining" of cam locks?

[coyotewhisperer]

Anyone know who "invented" the "chaining" of cam locks?

I'm pretty sure OG was the first to put it in a video I can't remember if he invented it or one of his friends or students did. Now I'm thinking maybe it was invented in canada. I can't remember.

[coyotewhisperer]

3N might have an idea as to its origin

Jeff