Do methods matter?

[trappnman]

We once had a rather interesting discussion here concerning trap nights per catch.

We found that overall (that is, on typical lines in typical type areas for each trapper) that the success rate on canines was very similar- about 1 coyote in 17 trap nights. So that if you had out 75 or so traps, you'd average a little over 4 coyotes a day.

A=B=C

So, it makes me wonder- does the same hold true on other animals?

Does a conibear mink man catch the same mink as a foothold man on the same streams? Given that they both fall into that A=B=C pattern of success?

Boxes on coon vs dirtholes?

Beavers? Snares, squares or jaws?

Now for myself- there are big differences in success rates depending on the traps I use. I do far better on coon with footholds that conibears- to the point where I seldom set a 220 anymore.

Part of it is mindset- my eye for locations, patterns is footholds, not something else.

But could a guy thats skilled in other traps or methods, take the same number of animals?

Comments please....

[bobwendt]

depends on the animal populations and how diligent a guy is in moving regular. like I could set 100 fox traps in indiana and catch 1 fox/700 trap nights probably, or set 100 fox traps in md or se pa or parts of the west and catch 35 fox/100 trap nights. same proinciple applys to most any animal. I suppose joels muskrat catch in the nevada desert is a tad slim.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Couple of years ago I caught 125 in 4 nights. Pretty much wiped out the creek.

Had flash floods that took out the beaver dams, now you'd have trouble catching 25 rats in the whole creek.

I had a few years of over a 1000+ rats in the Nevada Desert before they shut down Ruby Lake Refuge.

Joel

[trappnman]

what I mean more- is ,hypothertically of ocurse- a man usaing say flat sets take as many as an euqally skilled guy would in say dirtholes- over the same area and the same time?

For example- on rats- I know ("know") that if you set 50 sets in good rat territory with or without lure, the catch will be the same.

Lets say Joel went into an area and used his traps, his type of cat sets.

would someone using different trapsw, different sets- but equally as skilled- catch those same cats?

Is the method more important than the trappers skill?

[bobwendt]

skill levels definitly make a difference, i.e. methods, work ethic, amount of area covered. I think I could out do a flat set man 5 to one with dirtholes. and aparently about 10,000 other trapers and millions of animals over the years by all would verify. I see a flat set as a secondary method as " change up" . in fact I see every kind of set that way except the dirthole. easy , fast and most important, very effective. no or few worries about guiding as the hole is the guide. very few misses with decent attractor down the hole, in fact near none.

[trappnman]

Bob- I'm sure not making my query clear- let me try again.

lets say that you went into an area...

would you catch the same using:

1) small dirtholes
2) BIG dirtholes
3) flat sets
4) post sets
5) blind trail sets

[bobwendt]

canines. more, faster, with dirtholes. maybe say 90% of what is there in 3-7 nights. now if you went to all that other stuff after te 90% are dinged ,you might catch 6% more in a week additional, or if you stayed the dirtholes, maybe just change them around a little, probably about the same or maybe 1% less of the ADDITIONAL 6%. let me say I`m asuming we do have dirt, not all sugar sand or solid granit cliff rock. of course then a guy has to improvise to make dirtholes and l;ikely improvise so much that he switches to some other method. and no matter what set hwe makes, if no one comes by because no one there, or they are there but 200 yards over, it won`t matter!

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

To answer the question about cat sets, I suspect that a guy using good walkthroughs with uncovered sets would probably pick up somewhere between 5-20% of the cats that would walk by a set where he had to turn in to work it.

Been way more cats caught in canine design sets than in feline designed sets over the years.

There are more reasons to use these methods than just catching the walk by cats however.

I don't pack a hammer, trowel, stakes, sifter, and I'm just about at the point of leaving the lure home as well.

As for coyotes I can't argue with a dirtholes effectiveness, I used about 1/2 and 1/2 when I was trapping coyotes.

If I was to do it again I think I use more big baits and flat sets around those.

Over the years I've noticed several guys with good catches had the coyotes coming to them rather than them going to the coyotes. At least the general vicinity.

What do you guys think about big attractors vs. chasing around looking for locations.

Could be different in farm country than desert I suppose.

Joel

[bobwendt]

joel, it IS different in farm country than desert/rock country, for cats especially. the uncovered walk thru is near useless in the east and midwest type country, relative to the traditional flashy type modified catty canine type sets. nevada put up methods may be the berries the world around on cats, but not the accepted trapping techniques used in nevada. as far as big attractors, back over the river the larger confinemenbt hog or cattle operations are the magnets. there aren`t really the type locations suitable to hauling dead cows around and such and expecting much more than the 6-8 resident coyotes. once they are gone it can get to be looooong waits for a migrater. I think the eastern dogs must be more territorial or more home bodies. plus they aren`t everywhere as in much of the west. they tend to be in pockets.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

Interesting Bob.

I had a partner that shared a camp with me one winter that caught 74 coyotes in a couple of miles of creek bottom.

It was the only water for miles and there were 7 dead cows from larkspur scattered up and down the creek. I didn't see where they were eating the carcasses because they were summer kills and this was fall, but they sure were attracted to them.

The water would have attracted them but probably not in those numbers.

Joel

[bobwendt]

that would be unheard of in the east. my best spot ever was a tie between a feedlot in ks deadpile at 24 in 4 days and a big hog confinement operation here in indiana at 24 head also, but I had to keep traps on it off and on for 6 months to get the 24. from there it goes down real fast.

[mostinterestingmanintheworld]

These 74 came in about 3 weeks.

The old boy had only caught a couple of coyotes in his life struggling with wood stakes and such.

He was dying of cancer and wanted to spend his last days learning to trap so I said what the hey let's share a camp and I'll show you how.

The first check I came home with 11 coyotes and was bummed out because I was expecting 15-20.

Dale came in and asked me how I had done and I groused around about only having 11.

He started getting the grub ready for dinner and as an afterthought I said, well how did you do?

He burst out in a big smile, and said, well I got a few.

So we went out to the truck and he had 17 coyotes and a cat and a couple of badgers and a coon.

Not bad for a guys first run huh?

I had to spend the next day helping him skin the pile of bloat bellies as it took him an hour apiece.

The tough old basterd had 2-3 more operations as the cancer kept coming back but he trapped the next 2-3 seasons. God it was a pain to watch as he was basically a skeleton working off of sheer will power.

I've got to hand it to him, he came late to the party but the man went out a bona fide trapper.

I get a little emotional thinking about it.

Joel

[bblwi]

Using coons in WI as an example I would say that methods do make a lot of difference but mostly to the individual trapper and not the coon resource in my opinion.

You may have a trapper who prefers to trap only sole permission private property and spends a lot of time driving in and through the different properties setting up many different locations with either their preferred traps or a combination of traps. This style is more deliberate and private and maybe takes considerably more time to set out their lines and also check and do remakes etc. His personality, work constraints, lack of desire for excessive travel and being noticed may be the main drivers for this person.

One also may be a person who never bothers to get permissions and traps only the public RROWs and maybe does that with only body grippers over long routes with 2-3 of these loops per season. A similar approach could be used by someone only setting the wet bridges and creeks with slide wires and footholds.
There could be someone doing that with only dog proof traps etc.

There may be a person who does the very public speed trapping early and then goes to their private permissions later or whatever routine they want to use.
Those that trap extensively in highly public areas are more aggressive and thus having someone know they are trapping is not a big deal to them also they are more willing to accept some loss due to theft and other issues. They typically are quicker to measure up the situation and then determine if it is worthwhile to be there, continue to be their or move on.

I feel that choosing the methods that fits your personal makeup and constraints is critically important toward your success as a trapper. The term success here means did one fulfill their goals or vision. A deliberate more introverted, private person is not going to enjoy placing large numbers of body grippers along long travel routes and be seen by tons of people going to work and also finding some equipment gone. On the other hand I don't see a go-getter with a lot of spirit liking spending several minutes locating the best place to make a set where there may be a coon or two and is willing to wait a few weeks to catch that one coon.

Bryce

[PAskinner]

The other thing you have to take into consideration in T'man's question is matching sets to terrain and weather conditions. There are locations/conditions where one set is better than another. There are times and locations when keeping dirtholes working is a losing battle.

Times when your perfect pocket sets are going to be flooded out and you're better off to move up the bank.
I don't think any one method is superior in all conditions and parts of the country.

[bobwendt]

I do think one method is superior in most(MOST) conditions and areas of the country. of course other methods excell in oddball conditions, but I don`t think the 3 boobied woman is the one we are talking about.

[rk660]

I still rant and rave when getting ripped off at high risk public ground spots, jugular ready to burst, think about murder one and where to hide body and how much fun it would be cutting into pieces maybe even fargo the theif and borrow the old mans chipper, then 5 minutes later I just forget about it and go on with my day.

[trappnman]

lets not make this too canine specific, because its not meant to be that way.

Mink- BE or footholds? same # of mink? BK and I agree- that there would be.

but back to coyotes-What I think is this- a guy that comes into an area, and his preferred set is flat sets- he will take the same amount of coyotes, on average, as the guy with the same skills making mostly dirtholes.

And personally- I have as much confidence and success in either- I don't have a favorite set I make for results- because a good flat set or a good hole set are both going to do the job the same- so I put it what the conditions give me.

I do prefer to make flat sets, because I like them- easy to make and farm land- as for sure also does rangeland- lend themselves to easy blending.

[bobwendt]

I disagree tman, without the flashy big dirt pattern and the hole itself you lose a LOT of eye appeal and advantage of a canines natural interest in holes, any kind of holes. and a reason for him to stay longer and foot around more with a smell down te hole he can`t get at easily.

[trappnman]

Why would you disagree on what works best here? patterning coyotes isn't a problem- and my sets are found and worked no matter what type.

You make flat sets by an attractor or on a travelway. A clump of left over beans, a small erosion watereway- will attract every coyote in the whole field- its a "must visit" spot and a flat set works just as well as a hole set.

Keep in mind individual trappers might not do the same with other "tools"- such as me and 220s on coon- I'd take few- but I'll take as many with footholds aas any 220 man.

If you make 100% hole sets, your mind is not flat sets, your locations are not flat sets and you will have less success in flat sets.

and ut takes 1 sec to plant a bone for a visual if needed- and 1 bone will add to 2-3 sets

Plus, after one catch- no set is a dirthole or flat set-

[bobwendt]

nothing prettier than 6 red fox in a row all in an identical dirthole with identical piss and lure. proof they are as dumb as an ice cube ,if you have them and know how to make 6 identical sets in a row. dirtholes ,so no mises or tracks on the pattern. I have at least 100-150 pictures of different 6 pacs, so many I quit taking pics of them years ago. no way will I believe a flat set can ever approach the common dirthole for effectiveness or catch % of visitors. and it works the same mn or indiana or ks or wyoming or about a dozen other states I`ve worked. sand or rock would be the only exception and I`d dirthole them too if I could ream a hole somehow. leave the flats for the smart guys.