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Post by robertw on Aug 7, 2007 8:04:36 GMT -6
Steve, Guess I don't explain as well as I should.
For years I always set a dirt hole and a flat set at a location, I never wanted to get stuck in a rut of doing everything the same time after time.
The dirtholes got tainted meat baits, my beaver lure and urine. The flat sets got all of the fancy high dollar gland lures & urine, some were even baited.
With even numbers of flat sets and dirt hole sets in the ground the results were never the same, or even close, the consistantly ran from a 60-40% to 75-25% ratio in favor of the dirt holes.
I continue to use flat sets and many variations of them, I dislike doing everything the same and believe in being very versatile but...Dirt hole type sets produce more coyotes and bobcats for me.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 7, 2007 8:18:30 GMT -6
understood-
in my country, I see no difference.
I prefer flat sets cause I like them, but don't feel they produce better or worse than my style of dirthole.
My sets are made entirely by what is offered- a good picked hay feld- flats sets everytime.
Tall grass, a dirthole everytime.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 7, 2007 9:01:49 GMT -6
digging? the only digging I get is the ring he makes spinning around. if I saw digging and no catch, then I`m, doing something wrong. if you are getting digging and a catch too, how you know he dug brfore he tore up the area? how would wiley know?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 7, 2007 9:19:20 GMT -6
no Bob- not digging and a catch- but digging at the set.
I have never claimed to take 100% of the coyotes that see my sets- so yes, I get occasional digging, occasional back digging of holes, occasional misses. Apparently I am alone in this.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 7, 2007 9:23:00 GMT -6
holes? I thought you were a flat set man.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 7, 2007 9:34:59 GMT -6
if you will scroll back, you will see my favorite flat set.
to me, a true hole set, has a obvious dirt pattern from the hole. A flat set does not.
I think most would agree with this.
So while we could debate semantics- can we agree on that definition- and if not, why not?
A hole with the trap bedded outside the circumference of the hole, with the trap blended outside that pattern, would be, I'd think, a flat set by definition.
damp, humid day- hay is wet, dirt is wet... but I've been stalling long enough, time to go to work...
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Post by lumberjack on Aug 7, 2007 10:07:31 GMT -6
Im probably low man on the totem pole as far as canine catches go but I do know one thing. If I can dig a bed for the trap I can get a hole in (it may be horizontal), but I can get it to work. How are you guys making and luring your flat sets?
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Post by PAskinner on Aug 7, 2007 10:39:14 GMT -6
"paskinne, I`d argue your pointyto some extent. I believe location can be made exact, easily, almost every time"
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If location was exact, you wouldn't need a hole or a bait, just a blind set.
But, if you are that good (98%) and maybe your are, I dunno-and you're setting right on sign everytime, then you're only trying to move the critters feet over your trap, not trying to call him in at all-how much eye appeal do you really need?
I agree with what T-man was saying, we ain't all into super fast slam bang production style trapping-too much like factory work, if I had to trap that way all the time, I don't think it'd be much fun. I still tend to think there are some animals that just arent going into a regular dirthole- because they've seen one too many, but I'm sure I'm probably wrong, lol, I'm just a doggone hobby trapper, after all.
A lot of this is probably just a difference in personality types. A-type and B-type and all that. Sometimes I think Bob and T-man email each other and come up with a subject to disagree on for today, just to keep things interesting.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 7, 2007 11:46:47 GMT -6
lol, I always get first choice tho. it`s his forum and he can delete me so I demand to get to choose the side I want.
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Post by robertw on Aug 7, 2007 12:03:44 GMT -6
Tman;"to me, a true hole set, has a obvious dirt pattern from the hole. A flat set does not."
I disagree a dirt hole set has hole. Whether there is an obvious dirt pattern or not is irrelevant. Blended dirt holes are still a "hole" type of a set (at least for me).
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 7, 2007 13:04:10 GMT -6
Thats what I think too Robert, 1 of my best sets is a wallowed out stake hole, about 2", under a grass clump with a well blended trap. No dirt pattern at all but a very noticeable hole, too sandy for a reg dirt hole.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 7, 2007 14:03:34 GMT -6
say you have a big badger hole- and set a trap in the approach 3 feet away.
Hole set or flat?
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 7, 2007 14:28:40 GMT -6
Nither, a blind set. IMHO
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Post by ohiyotee on Aug 7, 2007 15:12:19 GMT -6
All you have to do to determine what is the better set is think about which set you would have a complete green horn make if it was his first attempt and you want him to succeed.
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Post by hotandry on Aug 7, 2007 15:28:28 GMT -6
Dirt hole or flat set for coyotes?
They both work.
The dirt hole best for the dirt hole guy and vice versa.
You ain't going to convince the dirt hole guy that the flat set is better or the other way around. Each is the best for that guy cause he has confidence in that set. It works. For him.
It's like rifles. You ain't going to convince a life long 30:06 that the 308 is a superior gun. Cause it ain't a superior gun for the first guy, as it is for someone else.
Its what one guy masters and has confidence in.
As for the guys saying the set doesn't matter just the location. Not so simple.
I follow the line of reasoning and think location is huge for some species but not so huge for others.
Try catching many cats off location and see what happens or doesn't happen is a better way to put it.
Same with water fur. Put a trap anywhere in a muskrat's path and he is a drowned rat. Put a hundred traps in the wrong creek or pond and its zero.
But for canines Joel brings up an interesting twist. Create your locations. Make the coyotes come to you. Wouldn't work for cats cause they are too snotty about it. But for coyotes heck yes. Instead of driving a thousand miles a day, bring the coyotes to you.
But the set has to work too. Lots of different sets that work so pick one. But a lousy set in a great location is going to be a problem.
The master trapper has to do both. Get on location AND have a set there that works. Can be one of several different types of sets depending on the trapper. But he has to master the art of making a set and then putting that sucker where the target animal is going to be.
Once those two things are down pat, the set and the location, then it becomes mass production if big numbers are the goal.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 7, 2007 18:51:56 GMT -6
if a 2" hole, with the trap blended in front of the hole, not in the hole pattern is a hole set...
what is the same set when that 2" hole is vertical?
What type of set is it when that 2" hole is covered by a cow chip?
What is a dirthole when its a remake?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Aug 7, 2007 20:01:20 GMT -6
I think maybe the difference to me between a dirthole and a flat set is what kind of lure or bait that you are using.
I usually use bait at a dirthole and not at a flat set. I know you can mix or match but if you want a definition that's probably as good as any.
Joel
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 8, 2007 6:57:53 GMT -6
I think if you can see the hole its a hole set, if you cant its a flat set, but why would you cover the hole? Instead of covering the hole with a chip, just put the lure under it, why make the hole if your going to hide it? I remake most of my dirt hole back to dirt holes, and a few get to be flat sets, as you have taught me on here, with the trash pile on each side.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 8, 2007 8:08:17 GMT -6
I know this is just having fun with semantics...
Joel raises an interesting definition....
A believe a hole holds lure longer....
how about a hole in that cow chip...LOL
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Post by PAskinner on Aug 8, 2007 9:34:32 GMT -6
If you rake up a pile of debris and put the lure 5" off the ground is it still a flat set?
If I'm just poking a hole in the ground the size of a stake and squirting/pouring some lure in it, I call it a flat set. If the hole is mouse sized or bigger, it's a dirthole. The reason for poking a hole for me--in theory they have to work harder if it's a lure they will dig at. The critters don't read the books or care what we call it, all that matter is if it works.
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