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Post by robertw on Jul 13, 2007 21:31:28 GMT -6
Most trappers just flat fail to get in front of enough coyotes or cover enough ground and maintain enough sets to keep their daily averages up during this time.
This isn't the answer to Bobs question but it sure is the answer to keeping the catch rolling in.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 14, 2007 5:23:12 GMT -6
robert w and rk and several have cures, or partial cures, but didn`t say why. the reason most trappers catch suffers come say dec first thru early jan is the simple fact a large % are dead now, 50%-90% depending your area and situation. you say but I move to new ground untapped, well you are one optimistic dude as by then the crops are out, the young are spreading out ( NOT migrating, just testing their wings) and if you didn`t ding them the other trappers did, or the callers, or the 10 million rifles in a tree, or night shiners, or highways, or farmers with a gun in the combine, or road hunters who see them now that the vegetation is down. or disease from unaffected populations now meeting affected populations. you get my point, they simply aren`t virgin anymore, anywhere, they are dead! so why does it get better in jan /feb, simple, the true migration has begun then and there are now coyotes ( or foxes if that is the part of the country you are in)moving thru multiple areas that they were never there before, and where you had no shot before, now you have a shot. there is a reason most guys go hard and furious in the dry sunny days of late october or early november. after that all the good ones are gone. those are the two reasons. research has indicated a very small % migrate year `round, a slightly larger % in fall, but come say the last 1/2 of january the red sea parts and the migration is the 8th wonder of the canine world. all the other reason are the 10% reasons and those two I just said are the 90%. maybe the %s vary slightly here or there, or what killed them varied, but the gist is the same the world over. use it to your advantage. get caught up on sleep, love on mama, get your fur up, whatever when the time is right so that when the time is really right, you can give `em hell. It`s worked for me for about 40 years now. a time for eveything, a time to live and a time to die. it`s even in the bible
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Post by trappnman on Jul 14, 2007 5:31:25 GMT -6
bill- those pups would have been with here all through the fall.....
robert- nice theory- perhaps the real northern guys could let us know if the same thing occurs in very cold temps.
I personally think its just less coyotes, being cautious, until breeding urges make them uncautious.
so there Bob!
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 14, 2007 5:54:28 GMT -6
well ya doofus, why didn`t you pipe up before.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 14, 2007 6:06:36 GMT -6
LOL Bob- I mentioned it about taking the easy ones, menaing fewer yotes- then posted my last post to sum it up- our posts crossed in the ethernet...
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 14, 2007 6:43:20 GMT -6
Dispersal is a topic I hope to read on here some time. Searched the archive and nothing, maybe I spell it wrong.. The topic came up elsewhere and pretty much was a "train wreck".
Is dispersal hard fact and written in stone, only opinion, fluctuates from area, climate, and species? Do brothers always separate from mom and sis before the rut?
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 14, 2007 7:37:53 GMT -6
hard fact written in stone and backed up by field work and tagging and radio collar studies. stickbowhunter, stick it to them.
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Post by stickbowhntr on Jul 14, 2007 7:43:25 GMT -6
ok Bob as you requested in that pm well for me......its just that the december blahs for ME....thanksgiving over , christmas comming, so much going on, me getting frutrated with life, the fur on the stretchers or hangers waiting for sale and burn out on my part by now I need a break and letting down, ah, the christmas shopping the rush of life and not sure I want to be part of it.....did I say the winter blues? At that time for me it's more about my state of mind than the animals indifference but .... that's just me I guess.....lol....looking for ward to your answer on the post , I just can't see the forest for the trees..... I did miss the lower number and less movement- I knew it but just didn't see as Bob said , we knew.
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Post by z on Jul 14, 2007 8:27:44 GMT -6
With my limited experience i'll throw some more out here.... I don't kill many a season. If I hit 10, I'm writing a book! Just kidding..... Half or more of my measly take is OLD, Toothless adults. I have many pics to prove it. Saying that......I'll add that in my opinion, In MY area it has more to do with accessability and being able to GET ON the coyotes then with less coyotes to deal with! Obviously, There are less coyotes BUT....In MY overpoulated (Human) area of the NE (Ten guns behind every tree) There are places a coyote can go where they will NEVER be bothered..... A place to calm down, Fatten up etc. prior to the breeding urge! Jimmy, I would like to hear from you on this!
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Post by rk660 on Jul 14, 2007 16:21:35 GMT -6
I do think coyotes kinda gang up somewhat in heavy larger cover, river bottoms, isolated pastures w/ lots of cedars, etc, after deer season, eary trapping pressure, guns in every pick up blazing at them, etc. They kinda get out of the flats and stay in these heavyer cover areas and hunker down. Hence good snaring if you set up cover plots that are current home to a batch of survivors. One cover used by coyotes alot around here is big CRP plots. Guys arent suppose to drive on them, and they are a little thick sometimes to bird hunt, and the coyotes just stay in them. About like standing corn in summer. If coyotes get valuable enough and mange subsided around here enough that I could run a large coyote line and be profitable, I'd be setting heavy on edges of all those CRP plots.
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Post by k9 on Jul 15, 2007 9:09:51 GMT -6
Thanks for all the posts guys. Makes good sense. Sorry for my lack of participation been swamped.
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Post by jsevering on Jul 17, 2007 19:31:15 GMT -6
z... imagine there is lots of mountain type areas simular to our general area through out the states.... with only a 24 hour check... lots of virgin country for trapping... water and land goes untouched...... after the first heavy snow..... add another fifty percent or so of lost accessability... unless you want to load and unload a snowmobile to run the wood roads.....then your just dead ending as you cant loop through... not practical...expecially for just coyotes
...........................................................................................
bob and or any others versed in animal biology....
does the coyote truly only have a ten day period of hormonal attraction.... before spotting or is there some percentage of hormonal change\release taking place earlier building up to that peak ten day period..... still on the whipping post here..... thanks for any replies...jim
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Post by ohiyotee on Jul 17, 2007 19:59:17 GMT -6
Let me call your attention to post number 26 of this thread. greg
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Post by trappnman on Jul 17, 2007 20:01:45 GMT -6
jim- I can speak only of dogs. ThHe old adage of a week coming in, a week in, a week going out ....plus a few days....is pretty much right on, making the attraction period close to 4 weeks.
How coyotes, with both comng into season just once a year react, I don't know.
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Post by stickbowhntr on Jul 17, 2007 20:32:19 GMT -6
ohiyotee,question for you. In your post at #26 says if you are good they're not there or something like that right, well you can move to were you weren't and they still would be slow. You know where your compititions at and they left some. Still hard to catch(blahs) in DEC and I beleive thats the question, right?
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Post by ohiyotee on Jul 18, 2007 5:31:37 GMT -6
yes but what i am saying goes hand in hand with what bob says, Just found it interesting that a pure armature no nothing like myself could come that close. We all know about the influx to new territory at that time of year when pairing up is occurring . i wish i had a dime for every time a land owner who pays you nothing to help them calls me in Feb, march and tells me about all the coyotes that i must have missed because he hears them, after i have taken 5 or 6 off of him 2 months before. they act like i should come over and correct things. greg
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Post by Zagman on Jul 18, 2007 6:01:41 GMT -6
I had a spot that I highlighted on this site a few years ago (think its in the archives) where I caught 10 coyotes in 8 days from the same spot, and 8 of the coyotes were big males.
Had never witnessed a concentration like that in such a time frame on the same little farm....
This past season, that same spot produced 15 coyotes, once again having a high percentage of large males. Up here, due to my short time and run and gun, 3-4-5 coyotes is the norm at a farm. Truthfully, I am rarely there longer than two weeks, sometimes less......not surprisingly, the places I leave traps the longest produce the most coyotes. But it gets into the old paradox of leaving traps longer in one spot to pick up a couple more, or getting those traps on new coyotes down the road....
New places, fresh faces, right?
These past two Januarys have been unusual in that they were mild and I was able to keep some traps going before work. Therefore, I have never really trapped much in the month of January.
Up here, its all about snow and our 150-250 inches we average a year......you just cant access the coyotes, and without snares, its a tough proposition at best.....
December is almost all encompassed with our nightmare deer season, so rarely do anything then any how except at my quarry....and there I see them giving me the big middle finger all the time in December.......
Zagman
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Post by stickbowhntr on Jul 18, 2007 6:57:30 GMT -6
Sorry I mised your point, I see it now ohiyotee.....many many of us hear how we ised stuff in early feb/march from landowners.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 18, 2007 7:54:38 GMT -6
you didn`t miss them. they just weren`t there yet and you left before the peak migration. and they probably wouldn`t be there now if you hadn`t trashed the residents back in november. the residents would still be there and running off their own young and any other young whipper snap migrators trying to horn in on them. that`s why fall fur trapping has little affect on spring adc calls. the good hasbitat will have coyotes in it come spring no matter how many get taken in te fall. now take them into feb/march/april and you can near empty an area dang near out for the whole summer and next fal too.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 18, 2007 8:05:36 GMT -6
"the good hasbitat will have coyotes in it come spring no matter how many get taken in te fall"
Agreed- going back to my earlier point about a trout, deer, etc moving in to fill a vacated spot.
Now- my question is this: is dispersal a "miles" thing, or a terriorty thing?
That is- do YOY migrate until they come to good areas, or migrate until they have travelled "X" amount of miles, bypassing closer areas?
The one collared fact that was really interesting, was that in our study, we had almost a complete population turnover every in 2 years. (keep in mind, the study was too small to make a transfer to a wild population at large, but still... (we had 12-14 yotes collared , and replaced them 2-3 times a year as needed).
So I've always thought here we have more of a shift, rather than a widespread dispersal.
Comments?
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