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Post by Furhandler on Apr 25, 2006 20:37:18 GMT -6
I see two types of this: The liquid and the powder. Which do you guys prefer mixed with a bait (Meat).
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Post by k9 on Apr 25, 2006 21:20:21 GMT -6
I have only worked with the powder. I know that Rich Kaspar, rk660 should have both forms, and could tell you the pros and cons of both.
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Post by cameron2 on Apr 25, 2006 22:05:00 GMT -6
The fluid is a tincture, so it isn't as potent as the powder. owever, some folks find the fluid is easier to mix with their bait, and most of the recipes I see call for a tincture.
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Post by coyote on Apr 26, 2006 3:56:27 GMT -6
while we're on the subject...any hints on amounts to use, solubility issues, etc?
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Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 26, 2006 5:31:58 GMT -6
Actually, asafoetida if tinctured properly and all the active is slowly removed from the gum powder it is stronger in this form.The powder used is a bonding deliver agent used by the Asians to market and package the asafoetida.
Asafoetida will also mix much more readily and have better contact properties in the tincture form with the other formula ingredients. Using asafoetida in the powder form requires adding it to a liquid slurry mix in order for it to blend completely or you may get spotty blending contact in a formula.There is alot of filler in the powder form.
It takes 1 to 2 years for me to get a good tincture extraction from a batch of asafoetida powder with constant aggiatation of the mix. But once it is complete it is as pure a form as you can get for formulation. Not many have a good understanding of how to do good tincturing.
If you water it down so to speak you get exactly that. If you dont use the right draw and hold materials and the right raw base asafoetia percentage to the tincture mix it wont get the job done and it will lose its potency in a short period of time. Not many good strong tincture products being sold retail now adays. Those with the knowledge are keeping this info on the QT for private use only.
Most is being made and sold to turn a dollar with only a hint of asafoetida so these tinctures will get lost or overwhelmed from other ingredients in a formula.The average trapper has no clue as to what is good and what is watered down unless compared side by side then it is apparent.
Sort of the same comparison with urine qualities.There is real good urine and there is other stuff. Both may contain the same properties but the strength and quality is quite another story.
When I put an ounce of this tincture in a formula it is obvious that is has been added. However it will slowly blend into the batch in time to the point of detecting only an ever so slight soft side of this ingredient which is what is desired.I have not used the powder form in many years because of the many advantages of using a good tincture.
BJ
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Post by jwr64 on Apr 26, 2006 6:13:56 GMT -6
Is the powder better than the gum? Whats better to tincture it with? vodka or pure grain. This tincture deal has been the most confusing thing I have ever tried to do.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 26, 2006 8:49:13 GMT -6
Tincturing does require good formulation knowledge of how to do it. It is a blend of things that are needed to extract and as I said not done easily by the novice lure maker. I dont share public information on specific things I do with my processes.
Alcohol or its derivitive types are a part of the ingredients needed. It took me many years to finally come up with a maximum draw tincture formula and years to see the final results. Just some things that cant be shared. If you work with it long enough and become familiar with several ingredients and their function you may eventually get the desired result.
No short cuts in lure formulation unless you have access to an old timer ready to sell out or pass it on.
BJ
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Post by TurTLe on Apr 26, 2006 10:49:38 GMT -6
Or you can just watch Johnny Thorpes lure video and learn how to tincture out asafoetidae gum. Of course where you get the gum is beyond me.LOL
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Post by jwr64 on Apr 26, 2006 11:31:36 GMT -6
I got 20 pounds of the gum. Strait from the weeds it comes from. Sometimes having family in the military is priceless. I have seen that part of the video, I was just fishing for another opinion.
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Post by Stef on Apr 26, 2006 11:48:32 GMT -6
All i use is the gum.
Its normally used in India to prevent GAS "fart"...LoL You know, they eat a lot of beans there.
Its pretty hard to get the real gum without any additive because all the production in India or other countries is sold to big British companies.
Stef
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Post by jwr64 on Apr 26, 2006 14:11:24 GMT -6
All i use is the gum. Its pretty hard to get the real gum without any additive because all the production in India or other countries is sold to big British companies. Stef So if I read this right, the stuff I have is the real thing since it came straight from the weed to me. My bro. in law give $5. us for 20 pounds off the cart from a guy that was gathering it. He said that guy left there like he had found a million $$$$$$
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Post by Stef on Apr 26, 2006 14:45:28 GMT -6
Probably. Send some here, I will tell you that... I'll double or even triple the $$$...LoL
Stef
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Post by coyote on Apr 28, 2006 4:16:45 GMT -6
All i use is the gum. Its normally used in India to prevent GAS "fart"...LoL You know, they eat a lot of beans there. Its pretty hard to get the real gum without any additive because all the production in India or other countries is sold to big British companies. Stef Stef, you said it all goes to big British companies...what do they use it for? that anti-gas treatment you mentioned? something else? what plant (latin name please) does it come from? Thanks!
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Post by CoonDuke on Apr 28, 2006 5:39:58 GMT -6
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Post by Stef on Apr 28, 2006 6:48:55 GMT -6
I talked with many Indians over the years doing some extermination jobs and they scrape the gum or today, like the link Coonduke posted, they use powder while cooking. They put that stuff to add a garlic taste but more importantly... It helps preventing gas "fart" because they do eat a lot of beans. It also true, they use it as a medicinal ingredient. I had the opportunity to smell 2 tinctures that were made and came from England. I found that in an India grocery in downtown Montreal. The color was real nice, it was dark and expensive. I smelled that and threw the whole thing n the garbage why? I could detect more the smell of rubbing alcohol in those tinctures.
In the lure making business... many old time lure makers were saying that asafoetida was a passion ingredient in natural gland scents... I don't know where they get that?...LoL Where? I believe that it was a secret ingredient in the past because some old time lures 2-3 ingredients, asafoetida was used or mixed with urine, fish oil and later glands... They catch furs with it and I still believe that it started like that.
I'm not saying that its not a good ingredients in gland scent... Old secrets just make the history you know.
If you read the link Coonduke just posted, they are saying that asafoetida is a sulfurous compound. Yes it is. And in my lures... I use the gum as a sulfides ingredient the same as mink glands, skunk essence etc..
Some stuff you have in your house have sulfurous quality too like onion and garlic.
In good pee, you will find sulfides too and k-9 especially are really attracted in lures which contains a little sulfides in them.
Hope that help!
Stef
Edited because it was making non-sense: because they do eat a lot of gas ;D
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Post by CoonDuke on Apr 28, 2006 8:09:38 GMT -6
Excellent post Stef. There is asafoetida on the market that is processed, but way more pure than the powdered variety. When tinctured out, bits of dirt and straw can be found in the tincture and float to the top. It comes in a block and is very dark brown, unlike the yellow powder.
Stef, If I remember, I'll bring some to the convention and you can give it the sniff test.
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Post by Stef on Apr 28, 2006 10:43:39 GMT -6
Fine with me CoonDuke.
The one I'm using is XDKDK-BR
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Post by coyote on Apr 28, 2006 17:30:40 GMT -6
appreciate the info, all!
is there a source for excellent quality gum?
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Post by CoonDuke on Apr 29, 2006 12:22:52 GMT -6
I dug out a package of the asafoetida I was talking about. It says it is made in India. An Indian friend of mine led me in the direction how to get this stuff. He says it is much stronger than the yellow powered stuff that makes up the bulk of the asafoetida on the market today.
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Post by braveheart on Apr 29, 2006 15:09:38 GMT -6
You can tincture just like valarian on my post above.It comes out nice and yellow.I can get you some pure stuff for a price.
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