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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 16:21:40 GMT -6
Post by slidewire on Apr 10, 2007 16:21:40 GMT -6
any news on beaver prices from groenwald. big storm last week froze all our rivers and creeks, 4 ft. drifts.
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 17:40:57 GMT -6
Post by thebeav2 on Apr 10, 2007 17:40:57 GMT -6
Oh no the "G" word LMAO
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 17:44:58 GMT -6
Post by daveplueger on Apr 10, 2007 17:44:58 GMT -6
Im just glad he didnt use the "N" word. LOL
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 17:56:26 GMT -6
Post by cowman on Apr 10, 2007 17:56:26 GMT -6
NAFA RULES!
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 18:05:29 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 10, 2007 18:05:29 GMT -6
is groenwald making beaver runs? I hear local buyers, tough to get $15 average put up.
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 19:56:50 GMT -6
Post by daveplueger on Apr 10, 2007 19:56:50 GMT -6
"NAFA rules".....At getting rich at the trappers expense!! No seriously. There are times the auctions will be a bit better and times the bigger country buyers will pay more. Just a matter of which poison you prefer. Yes Groeny is running beaver routes But the beaver market isnt what it was last year at this time. Good luck.
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beaver
Apr 10, 2007 21:21:05 GMT -6
Post by thebeav2 on Apr 10, 2007 21:21:05 GMT -6
Well Dave If Groney Isn't getting rich buying fur he would be out of business. How many small fur buyers has he bought out In the last few years. And when he buys out the rest of them what do you think the prices will be, hold on to your shorts. I'm glad I still have a option as to who I can sell to.
I can't tell you how many guys sold early coon In the grease last year at a $10.00 average. While all those coon probably would have gone at a $18.00 average put up. Any way that's what they went for at FHA
I don't remember any NO value coon at NAFA.
And you say NAFA Is taking advantage of trappers.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 5:46:49 GMT -6
Post by 17HMR on Apr 11, 2007 5:46:49 GMT -6
Shipped to NAFA this year for the 1st time, and after all fees, more than doubled the avg I got localy for beaver and yotes. Also did 1/3 better on coon.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 6:31:59 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 11, 2007 6:31:59 GMT -6
groney does treat a few buyers well- but those he sends to buy around here, won't ever get my fur. Because I've bene there, done that.
isn't groenys motto "We screw the next guy and pass the savings onto you"?
I was always the next guy.......
hes dug himself into a big hole aorund here with his actions- luckily we got good local buyers so we have other options besides shipping-
Seems like arod here, once anyone gets enough numbers or exprience with fur- they quit using groeny.
I detest his cherry picking, I detest his "no value coon" I absolutely dislike his outrageous high end prices.
does he think we all are 13 years old?
so- me- and I told him my feelings face to face and the old mans only response was "we don't do business like that anymore"
huh! actions DO speak louder than words.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 8:22:03 GMT -6
Post by ColdSteel on Apr 11, 2007 8:22:03 GMT -6
All what I hear is the beaver market is weak.I was offered 15.50 for my put up beaver this year at the VA auction also had a low bid of 13.50.A good friend of mien sold his beaver headcount to the same buyer in th round for 15 bucks.Buyers got scared quick this year on the beaver market.I sent mine to NAFA only had 85 and if they sell cheap which it seems they may do and 25 dollar otter ole Tony will do ADC work on beaver because at those prices most people will stop cocking 330's.I make way more money doing ADC work with nowhere near the work involved
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 8:36:55 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 11, 2007 8:36:55 GMT -6
I don't know what it was on the beaver. the country buyers here were optimistic on early beaver. I just had a few, all good size, and sold them all between $25-$28 green. last fall he was speaking of $20+ spring averages ( and he doesn't hype, he was saying what he felt)
I even had one late, that power dam beaver, that I got $28 for. Lee said that was probably pushing it a little and that that $28 might be a finished price. This is the same after Feb sale where mink and rats tumbled.
but the beaver sure went to h#ll after that for some reason.
Lee said it a couple of times this season "the trouble with the fur market, is that nobody has any money"
I think there is a lot of truth to that.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 8:40:25 GMT -6
Post by Rally Hess on Apr 11, 2007 8:40:25 GMT -6
Dave, There is a reason Groeny doesn't come to Mn. He has buyers doing his bidding. They are paying $8.00-$12.00 for green beaver right now, depending on how many middle men there are. I stood right next to Grant on the auction room floor and listened in disbelief to him try and solicite foreign buyers. Herman wasn't too impressed and asked him to leave. He also used to put minimum bids on his lots of low end coon he shipped to get free cold storage, which he can no longer do. I wouldn't put anything past that bunch. There are still some standards of conduct, even in the fur industry.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 8:46:12 GMT -6
Post by ColdSteel on Apr 11, 2007 8:46:12 GMT -6
Can't speak for your buyers Tman but most around here still crying about last years otter and for good reason.These men were paying anywhere from a 115 to 125 dollar price in the round.A year later most haven't sod and what has is in the 20 to 40 dollar range.That down right hurts for someone buying 500 to 2500 otter .Look what happened to rats his year dang I can't blame them for being gunshy don't know if its lack of money or scared to invest in fur unless very cheap that was my opinion on the VA fur sale
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 9:15:03 GMT -6
Post by thebeav2 on Apr 11, 2007 9:15:03 GMT -6
Rally Is telling It like It Is.
I can remember back 40 years when the rat wagon made It's rounds. Good old goneys tally was In most cases 1 or 2 off from your count. Lots of rats fell behind the grading table LOL.
You can bet your bottom dollar those buyers with big dollars In the market are going to try and get some of It back on other fur and It will probably be that way for awhile. Can't blame them. They never caught Groney he was always pretty careful when it came to otter. It's my belief that NAFAs not selling the otter and Is trying to get then best they can for those dealers. They don't want the dealers to go under any more then the dealers do. But sooner or later someone Is going to have to bite the bullet.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 10:02:52 GMT -6
Post by Rally Hess on Apr 11, 2007 10:02:52 GMT -6
Fur is a comodity, nothing more nothing less. We are at the mercy of polotics, weather, fashion and now religion. The middle men buy on speculation both good and bad. They may take it in the shorts or they may hold rats or coon they bought for $1.00 a couple years ago, and sell them for $5.00 . The guys that buy smart, like Groeny, have been on both sides of this and are still around. The % they make is coming out of your pocket one way or the other. I can tell you where the fur they can't sell goes. Like any commodity the market will vary according to fashion and advertising efforts. You want the price of beaver to go up, buy a stetson cowboy hat. If you want the price of otter to go up, tell the Dahli Lama that there is a difference between river otter and sea otter. If you can't do either, market your fur to a company that will promote your fur in these markets and may actually be promoting your best interest. Yes they are going to get a percentage of your money, but their percentage is a direct percentage of what they get for your fur. If you receive the same for your fur after shipping, drumming, cities fees, etc as you could have received from a local buyer, you still had your product being promoted by the auction company. I'm speaking of NAFA here as I'm not real familiar with FHA or Seattle Fur Exchange's promotional efforts at this time. If you don't know how to handle your fur, need christmas money or operating cash,gas money etc, sell in the round, but expect to receive less for your fur. Some buyers do sell direct to some markets and have a guaranteed price, but not for all species or sizes whithin a species so they also utilize the auctions. There are even speculators who buy from one auction house, regrade the fur and sell at another auction later, working sales and percentages. The markets for wild fur are very limited and are really a small circle all said and done. The players know the players, their advantages and their weaknesses. Some have very deep pockets, some have more risk and buy on smaller margins to stay in the game. Many get into the market when it is good and some lose alot of money but the long haul buyers play the averages. They can afford to sit on 25,000 coon, rats, or beaver for a couple years. Peak buyers can make money but often leave the business owing the bank, often selling their collection to a larger buyer at cost to break even. It has also happened where a market broke leaving smaller buyers holding the debt for what they were promised would be a guaranteed price. The auctions have set fees to both sellers and buyers. They both know what is going to cost them to get their fur either sold or when they buy it at auction. The best chance to make a profit is to take it out of the price paid to the trapper and they have to make a profit to stay in the game. I've yet to see a local buyer that can match the auction year in year out species to species. Also consider that wild fur is a small percentage of the total fur produced in the world, with ranch mink being several times larger than all wild fur combined. Wild is sold as an alternative in the fashion world, primarily as trim. Fashion trends being at the wim of women and fashion designers who are always looking for something different or outstanding, to make a statement, accent their beauty or wealth. If you think about how fast your wife or the fashions change and consider that the buyers of fur are speculating into the future, say up to two years from purchase to garment it only makes sense our markets vary as much as they do. A walk through the mall with your wife or daughter will tell you that. Consider that ranch mink is a safer buy, in that they are the same size, can be harvested with little to no difference in primeness, color or size. Wild fur is a gamble from the time it is caught in a politically correct Cable restraint until it gets to the mall. If you want safe buy gas futures.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 10:41:30 GMT -6
Post by cowman on Apr 11, 2007 10:41:30 GMT -6
Good informative post Rally! Thanks.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 11:22:35 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 11, 2007 11:22:35 GMT -6
Rally- If you mean that yo uhave yet to see a local buyer that matches or beats the auctions on all species- I agree.
But I do know local buyers that consistently meet or beat the auctions on selected species such as rats, mink and coon.
I've been told by both NAPA and FHA agents that with those prices, I can't afford not to sell local.
however on canines, beaver.... different story.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 12:01:55 GMT -6
Post by ScottW on Apr 11, 2007 12:01:55 GMT -6
Rally- If you mean that yo uhave yet to see a local buyer that matches or beats the auctions on all species- I agree. But I do know local buyers that consistently meet or beat the auctions on selected species such as rats, mink and coon. I've been told by both NAPA and FHA agents that with those prices, I can't afford not to sell local. however on canines, beaver.... different story. Steve, Why would you listen to someone from an auto parts store regarding where you sell your fur? ;D J/K, couldn't resist though. Nice common sense explanations rally, if people can't make any sense of that, well...no comment. Gotta go tack a few worthless beavers on the boards! Happy trapping. ScottW
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 13:04:47 GMT -6
Post by shagnasty on Apr 11, 2007 13:04:47 GMT -6
beaver prices suck compared to last year, i am very glad i didnt trap many at all this season, with i would have trapped less than i did. wont be too many more years of this and i wont be trapping much at all unless being paid, my buddy coldsteel has the right idea.
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beaver
Apr 11, 2007 13:07:52 GMT -6
Post by robertw on Apr 11, 2007 13:07:52 GMT -6
I think the biggest misconceptions concerning fur prices comes from trappers NOT KNOWING what they have.
To compare a trapper collection price of coons (any species) with the sale averages from NAFA or FHA is ludicrous! (providing they are properly put up on boards)
Coon from here in northern Missouri normally run $1-$2 more on average than the sale prices posted by the Canadian Auction houses. I-80 and north coons will run $2-$4 above the sale averages posted (if properly put up!).
IF THERE WAS ANY WAY TO GET PRICES COMPARABLE TO the Canadian action houses locally I would do it, but it just is not possible!
How many local buyers did you guys witness last year paying $30 + averages for southern (interstate 20) beaver?
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