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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 11:34:31 GMT -6
Talking to trappers at conventions and some of my friends that own them if I was gonna buy some 330's it would have to be complete closure.I have caught no telling how many muskrats in 330's over the years I average from around 20 to 40 a year and no telling how many snapped traps I have had that were empty.I have even found muskrats laying 10 to 20 feet downstream from 330's that were fired.No telling how many more muskrats or mink for that matter I could have caught with complete closure traps .If you are in the market for 330's its something to think about
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Post by robertw on Apr 17, 2007 11:44:04 GMT -6
The problem with todays conibears is finding a good factory four-way trigger system on a good trap!
IMHO, the best four-way trigger (330 size) on the market is / was the BMI. The problem with the BMI 330s Mags was that they were made from soft steal and the jaws bent around every turtle I caught!
The Belisles are good trap but give severe leather burns to most beaver and actually plucks or rubs a tremendous amount of fur from beaver. The trigger system is improved from what it was a few years ago but...Still needs improvement.
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 11:50:52 GMT -6
Interesting with those BMI's never owned a magnum but I probaly hav e 4 dozen of the standard never had a problem.I heard the same thing on the Belisle trigger but heard they were much better.I can't give a opinion cause I don't own any but talking to the boys it increased thier rat catch and I even know 2 trappers who caught a mink in the complete closures
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Post by shagnasty on Apr 17, 2007 11:52:20 GMT -6
scew the rats, seriously, if i cock a 330 it is for beaver or otter, they dont get out, i use mainly duke and bridger. never met a beaver or otter that had anything for either one of these traps.
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Post by robertw on Apr 17, 2007 11:57:52 GMT -6
Shag;"they dont get out, i use mainly duke and bridger. never met a beaver or otter that had anything for either one of these traps."
I think you over committed yourself with that statement! If you haven't had a neck caught otter or two power out of a trap you haven't spent enough time in the field yet.
The Bridgers had a bad problem with soft steel as well. Knew of several trappers that had problems with bent jaws.
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 12:02:12 GMT -6
If I cock the trap I want to kill the rat I have had numerous trap fired that I feel like were caused by muskrats for example check 3 traps on a creek first 2 be fired and a rat in the third one coming downstream makes me think he fired the other 2.The quicker I can kill the rats the quicker my 330's stay open.Besides I sold 39 last year for a 10.25 average and this year no more water trapping than I done I caught 18 sold those for 5.25 very little work in rats.Ihave made up my mind I am gonna try a dozen this year and set them in my problem creeks where rats swim just to see what happens
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Post by shagnasty on Apr 17, 2007 12:02:30 GMT -6
i honestly can say i have not had one get out that i am aware of, meaning no hand gernade bomb site and otter hair in trap but no animal. i do respectable numbers most years and cock a lot of traps, so have set enough steel to have about anything happen. i rotate traps every few years so that likely has something to do with it. the duke trap is a killing machine, so is the bridger, the bending jaws does not bother me, the fur is still there dead when i show up. like i said i rotate traps out every few years, i dont like weak traps on my line.
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Post by frenchman on Apr 17, 2007 13:42:11 GMT -6
Go MAGNUM!!!
Belisle 330s or Sauvageau 2001-11 will do it for you!
I have a bunch of other brands, yes they catch fur, but the new magnums are the way of the future (and both have good triggers in my opinion - the new Belisle triggers are 4-ways and work awesome).
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Post by jim on Apr 17, 2007 13:55:12 GMT -6
IMHO if they are dead ten feet from the trap they were never between the jaws, they were just hit a glancing blow and it did them in. Jim
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 14:36:54 GMT -6
I agree Jim and am curious how many rats I have lost that way or just down right missed with my regular 330's.I have heard people say it increased their rat catch.I am gonna try a dozen to see it won't take long to tell on my line just don't know what brand to try because I have 0 experience with any of them
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Post by shagnasty on Apr 17, 2007 14:47:21 GMT -6
i can count on a couple hands how many rats i catch each year in beaver/otter sets, we just dont have that much of a population. i sure am not going to buy a bunch of high end traps to try and catch a few more rats, the things are a pain in I disagree to be honest. the best thing to do would be set on the rat sign and thin them down fast if that many in an area.
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Post by Stanley on Apr 17, 2007 15:20:33 GMT -6
ColdSteel, try some 660's, I have one, and plan on converting a few more of my 330's to 660's. This one 660 has caught alot of fur. Rats, mink, otter and beaver. Yes ,I've found rats down stream from a 330. But doesn't everything have a place in use?
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 16:13:40 GMT -6
Shag,I never said anything about buying a bunch of traps.After talking to Bud and Mike about not finding many fired traps has convinced me to try a dozen.I believe those boys in what they say.Me paying 30 to 40 bucks a dozen for a good quality trap doesn't bother me especially if it catchs more rats that are now firing my old conibears.I don't see much sign on these creeks but I do catch some,Me catching 20 to 40 rats a year is very few for the creeks I block and traps I have out and if those high dollar traps catch most rats and I have fewer thrown traps it won't take long at all for them to pay for themselves.If I was just starting out and had a good rat population in my swamps and creeks I would look very hard at the complete closure trap
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Post by BrandonH on Apr 17, 2007 16:21:18 GMT -6
You guys haven't even touched on the odd catches you get in a Magnum style conibear... I run Belisle Super X's from 160's on up to 660's. I've caught otter/beaver by the leg and tail in the 330s. Fisher by the nose in 220's and coon by the foot in 160s. I certainly don't try to catch 'em like that, but sometimes chit happens. In normal bodygrips, those traps would be fired and empty. Not to mention the muskrats, weasels, and other small incidentals I pick up.
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 17, 2007 17:09:47 GMT -6
Good post Brandon I never looked at it that way I have caught a lot of beaver and otter and have only had one otter by the tail .Looking back over the years I have lost 6 furbearers in conibears that I had good .I know for a fact 3 of those were otter 3 other 3 I haven't a clue.I do know I get a lot of fired 330's and it really hurts my catch especially on 72 hour checks and if the complete closure traps solve most of this problem I can see me selling my other 330's and upgrading in the future
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Post by rk660 on Apr 17, 2007 19:38:22 GMT -6
RobertW, Jim Comstock has been making up standard sized conibears, mostly belisles, from shortened 660 kits w/ the 1/2" rods, around 12-14" wide. He gets a stronger trap, and the larger dia rods dont burn the fur as much, and a better trigger to boot.
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Post by robertw on Apr 17, 2007 19:41:13 GMT -6
The Belisles have made me animals (especially after you tune that trigger!) but.....They do damage some fur on those spring beaver...Got to take the assetts with the liablilties....And these traps fill a need in my arsenal of equipment.
As far as trap costs go.... I will pay for quality (if it costs more), I want the best equipment that is available.
Why quibble over $20-$60 difference in trap prices when Otter average $180 or Bobcats average $350 or your being paid $350 a day to kill critters?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 17, 2007 19:47:28 GMT -6
It doesn't take much to hold cats.
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Post by PamIsMe on Apr 17, 2007 21:07:36 GMT -6
Snapped traps are mostly trapper error. If a beaver or otter enters a 330 It will be there when you check the trap. I've had plenty of live otter but they were not getting out of that trap. Most snapped traps are because of poor stabilizing or Improper guiding. These odd catches won't happen If the animal goes through the trap.
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Post by ColdSteel on Apr 18, 2007 0:45:20 GMT -6
Snapped traps are mostly trapper error?I have to disagree with that statement.Lots of things can happen to throw a 330 muskrats(which I know for a fact throw some) lets not forget mink ,small fish,current,leaves and sticks.When I set a 330 I make absolutely sure the trap is stable also use guiding to force the otter or beaver in the trap I love to use wax myrtle it stay green and very plentiful where I trap holly works good also as well as bambo reeds.When I come up to a trap that is throwed and see no disturbance in my guiding and both my dive poles are still in place(I put one 8 to10 inches on each side of the trap) I feel strongly that the trap wasen't fired by a beaver or otter they are simply to big and should disturb the set.For having lots of otter live in 330's I have only had 3 and I have also lost 3 that I had in a 330 . Maybe you have caught a lot more than me who knows but maybe you should check your trigger travel on your 330's Paul Dobbins had a very good article on this years ago .I noticed a lot of my older traps would travel 4 to 5 inches before firing( because of the dog showing wear) which is too much he shows how to file the dog and get that trap to fire in 1 to2 inches of travel I did this and it helped a lot I started getting more and more neck and shoulder catches and very very seldom now do I have a hip caught otter
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